91 B150 - No Spark, TB Spews ton of gas w/o engine cranking - DEAD ON HWY NOW!!!
 

I was driving on HWY for 30 miles then it acted as if it ran out of gas or was flooding. Got weak, couldn't keep RPM's, and I believed it died due as guage said it lost all oil PSI and I couldn't get any reaction from gas pedal.

Background:
- 350K Miles on 318ci 5.2L V8 B150 1/2 ton RamVan
- Really old cat (may be full?) and smog/air pump doesn't have a belt attached (effect?)
- A/C Electrical wires that connect on front passenger side by <heater box?>. 2 different plugs not connected.

Testing Done/Thoughts:
*Oil leaked out and engine seized - Oil was full when checked after fail
*Tranny Seized - It would still start while out of gear (I think)
*Belt driven itemseized (water pump, alt, A/C, P/S) - No broken, squeeking, or smoking belts. Haven't watched from front while cranking.

*****When cranking, minimal amount of gas is visible while looking in TB.*****
*****When key released (on position) it spews gas like a garden hose while engine is dead (not turning, no spark)

*Wire from coil didn't "appear" to spark from different grounding locations

* No smog/Air pump belt caused cat to fill/clogg, engine choked to death, O2 sensor is trippin and causing TB to spew gas????

TPS throttle Position Sensor? Throttle cable not stuck and "TB valves?" are closed/barely open while gas is spewing, not wide open as if hitting the gas. (What's that mean?)

Sorry for so much info, but it seems relevant and I need to get my vehicle off the HWY. 10pm and I have $40 to my name.

- A friend mentioned a WOT (wide open throttle)
- Someone else mentioned a coil resistor by the firewall
- And how about a crankshaft position sensor (bad position for spark and right place to trigger gas injection)

This is very Abby normal, and I will guess the problem revolves around this symptom.

First, check the engine codes Via the Key Dance. Key on off on off on. Count check engine light flashes, and pauses. 3 flashes, pause, 5 flashes is code 35. code 55 means end of codes. 12 is normal too. Do a search if this is too vague.

Second, since it is an electrical issue, remove, clean and retighten the grounds. Battery to engine, battery to firewall, and frame to engine. Make sure the alternator ground is good too. Just looking and assuming they are fine is not helping to eliminate them, and Dodge's are notorious for bad grounds causing bizarre issues.


The lack of an airpump belt would only reduce catcon life.

The Crank sensor on a TBI is inside the Distributor, and called a hall effect sensor or distributor pick up.

There is no ballast resistor.

No spark but with plenty of fuel pressure could be a bad coil.

Too much fuel pressure could be a faulty F pressure regulator, or clogged return line.

Check for codes, and then clean the grounds, and post any codes and we will have a better chance of helping you.

Going to check
 

I just got up and going back to do some of what you said. I am 45min from home with very basic tools and it may get towed off HWY soon!

I did remove and re-apply dist cap recently? Will re-apply in-case it is CPS.

Coil tested OK at AutoZone (hope they did it right)

What can I do to check/eliminate the fuel pressure regulator and where is it?

Willpost codes if any. _____THANK YOU!!_____

Key dance appears to give multi codes

35
5 + 10? Is that 50?

In it now and has been tagged for towing - please help

The fuel pressure regulator is located on the throttle body. It is tested by testing fuel pressure with and without the vacuum line attached. Not really helpful to you now.

It looks like this:
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/ge...ex%2FPR311.jpg

You are not reading the flashes/ pauses correctly.

Code 55 will flash last and means end of codes
Code 12 means the battery has been disconnected within the last 50 key starts.

The engine computer ground is attached at the base of the coil. make sure that is good, and look at all the other grounds.

If you cannot get any codes besides 55, try disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes to reset the computer.

I am posting from cell phn. Hard to see what I put prev. 1st code was 35 + 510?

Did it again ang got 35 + 55, so 35 is the key.

I left van and will go back in an hour (my ride to it had 2 go). My insur co doesn't offer a tow, odot charges, and I have $40. It got tagged for tow already.

Code 35.........

I did sand 2 connections to coil and a groung cable between coil mount and block. Still no start.

It doesn't spew gas like a hose anymore, but no spark continues.

The ground wire to coil had a sharp bend right at connection. Very thin and can't trace wherfe it goes to bypass with another wire.

Code 35 is a junk code and has nothing to do with your problem. It has to do with when there's an electric radiator fan instead of a mechanical one.

Since the coil test okay, did you check for power at the coil with the key on? With the plug connected you should have the same voltage at the coil as you do at the battery.

Keep an eye on your battery level since the phone is your only connection to us.

Hey do you know these guys? http://infocusaccessories.com

I need to get a tester of some kind. Shorting them probable isnt a good idea right? You know, as you would with a spark plug wire to block.

A friend just used a flatbed to get it the 45min back home (hell yeah!).

No, but thts funny it has my wifes phone number. Must be previous owner.

Right, that's a bad idea. You will blow the fusible link and lose all power if you do that.

Fusable link. If that prevents pwr to coil, where is it and how to check if you deem worth while?

Thanks for your help.

Glad your buddy has a flat bed.
The fusible links are stuffed behind the brake booster. They are lengths of wire with a thicker softer insulation. The one that powers the coil is the same one which powers the fuel pump and injectors, so I don't think that is your issue, but there are a couple more back there, so pull em out and inspect anyway.
http://www.whiteproducts.com/fusible-faqs.shtml

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/electrical-links.html

This thread has info on how to test the distributor pick up/ hall effect densor/ crank sensor.

https://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-r...or-fuel-2.html

Put your battery on a charger.

Just a quick point of view, I had the exact same symptoms with my 1996 5.2l b2500. After digging and troubleshooting, ended up being a clogged cat. The cat had gotten so clogged up that pieces had started to break loose, plugging the exhaust.

Replacing the catalytic converter fixed my issue. YMMV.


-Cody

I am back from an overnight hike and now have time to test more.

Did the cat issue actually create a no-spark issue?

If so, that could very well be since I had no smog pump belt for a month. I read different things on forums. A lot of post about vehicles stalling due to a clogged cat and the way mine died was as-if choking or flooding.

On the roadside I did beat the hell out of the cat with a hammer just in-case and it did sound full of metal shards and so did the muffler. They look like the originals?

I played with a volt meter and the coil and got some results that I don't think should be, but not sure. these are when cranking.

- Didn't read any voltage from coil+ to coil- (~16ga wires?)
- Does read 11v from coil+ to block and coil- to block

This has me thinking of a bad ground on coil (is this the one that goes to computer or can I bypass to block?)

Coil out to dist connection to block still read 11v (working fine?), but not strong enough for me to see a spark when coil out wire put next to block?

-

I just printed this and will be doing some testing today with a buddy. Thanks for the screenshot and time.

Update
 

No longer spews gas as long as ground at bottom of coil mount to ?? is bolted down, just a no spark issue now.

voltmeter says 12v getting to coil
voltmeter says ground from coil is good
voltmeter says coil-out to disti is giving 12v
replaced coil
replaced hall effect sensor (A.K.A. coil pick-up)

no apparent coil resistor installed (white ceramic 2/4 prong block by battery)

• There was a makeshift 4 connection device in it's place? (pic below)
• Have looked, but have not located one on block yet

No obvious fusable links broken, but there is a loose end of a black wire? Could be a blown one, but I was unable to find the other end.

I was unable to verify if a CPS (crankshaft position sensor) was present. Not visable from the doghouse. There are 2 connections under drivers seat area, both with 3 wires and one near the end of the transmission with 2 wires. The one in the back swivels. Speed sensor I think it was called (bought the book for it finally)

Please provide the next step in finding out what is preventing spark.

Cannot see any photo.

You have no ballast resistor or crank sensor per se. The computer figures out when to pulse the injectors via the hall effect sensor/ distributor pick up. Later models have true crank sensors down by the tranny. It is needed to tell the computer which injector to fire. Since you only have 2 throttle body injectors to feed 8 cylinders the ECM only need to know when to fire the 2 injectors, not which of 6 or 8 injectors to fire.

That ground wire at the bottom of the coil's mounting foot is the computer ground.

If this was disconnected the computer was trying to find a ground somewhere else. Perhaps the ECM is damaged. The ECM does have it's own fusible link that is not really bundled with the others.

Is your check engine light still coming on when you turn the key to on?

The asd relay powers the coil, fuel pump and injectors. Can you hear the fuel pump turn on for 2 seconds when first turning the key to on?

It is hard to really definitively blame the ECM, unless a replacement solves the problem.

Look up your engine computer on Rockauto, under electrical or engine management it will list an engine control computer, and show a pic. If you click on the blue part number it shows all the models the part fits. Some Pick ups share the same computer on some years. Perhaps a junkyard. Try wiggling the connectors at the computer. Try removing and inspecting them for moisture, corrosion, debris.

Besides blaming the coil you had tested, I am out of ideas.

I've had the battery out for a day/2 so the computer can clean itself of codes. It was giving me all kids from the testing I did. Should have battery in today and new codes.

I could hear the fuel pump when in the "on" position and it was still giving codes.

Am I going to be looking at replacing the computer in the hood over engine or the one in the glove box compartment?

What's the difference?

I dont know much and didnt read the entire thread just a few posts.

Could be a bad ground, bad grounds cause havoc as I had an issue with that.

Might be a bad computer, $20-$60 fix if its the SMEC, could be the PCM variety.

I have a brain fart now and dont know the word for the thing that screws onto the exhaust manifold or exhaust pipes for measurements. Could be that. Had one on my Jeep YJ, those are expensive, best to replace with a few different junk yard ones then a new $100 one.

:icon_omg:Do you mean the O2 (oxygen) sensor?:icon_omg:

An O2 sensor will not cause a no start, nor do they cost 100$. Perhaps on a vehicle which needs 2, but a '91 does not.

I have read on Bitog that Dodges do not like Bosch 02 sensors. Apparently NGK/NTK sensors come/ came stock on all mopars and many report better fuel economy and better longevity with them.

I am on my second Bosch 02 sensor, and I suspect it again as I am running slightly rich. This one if for my '89, apparently does not fit a '91.
http://www.amazon.com/NGK-23023-Oxyg.../dp/B000C5PY1S

I did not know they put any computers in/ behind the glove box. Perhaps this is for the ABS brakes or air bags.

Look at the photos on Rock Auto.

Computer behind the glove box is the RWAL computer. Airbag computer is under the drivers seat.

**issue resolved**
 

Replaced the computer and it works now. Run rough warm, but a least it starts now.