Hi everyone,

2000 Dodge Ram 1500 Van w/ 5.2L V8 and 203k

A mechanic friend and I recently replaced most of the brake components before a big trip, as he said they were worn out. We did calipers, rotors and pads up front, drums, shoes, brake cylinders and hardware kit in the rear. Also wheel bearings and flexible brake hoses front and rear. Van has rear wheel abs only.

Now I get really intense shuddering when braking, even at low speeds and especially at high speed or downhill. It doesn't feel particularly strong in the steering wheel to me, more like in the body. I don't think I feel it in the pedal either.

Any ideas? How can I zero in on what's off?

Thanks for your time!

 

If it's not in the steering wheel, then it's most likely one or both of the rears. First thing I'd do is remove the drums and check the mounting surfaces for debris. If there is any then the drums don't sit flat and run straight.

 

May need to have the drums turned..... When I did this kind of thing for a living, I would not just install drums/rotors right out of the box..... they would get a ride on the brake lathe first, to make sure they were true..... I hated having to do jobs twice..... and the off the shelf parts were universally NOT true......

 

Thanks guys. Finally have a chance to pull the drums off today. Here are some photos of the driver's side. I notice an uneven wear pattern inside the drums, where the silver band goes from narrow the thick then back again. And there's a TON of black brake dust in here. The most knowledgeable guy at my local O'Reilly says they were installed too tight originally and overheated the drum. But I think they were shuddering right from the start after install, and they only have a couple hundred miles on them total.

Final data point - I just had a new (junkyard) ABS pump installed, as a mechanic said the front right caliper was slow to release. It does feel like the brakes now release more quickly after a stop. But I've also got the ABS light and parking brake warning lights illuminated on the dash. The Parking Brake definitely does not feel like it's engaged.

 

The parking light always comes on with the ABS light. So, solve the ABS issue and both lights will go off. That oily residue is what's causing the brake shudder. When it gets between the shoe and drum it creates a vacuum, much like stepping in mud and trying to get out with your boot still on. Could be from a leaking wheel cylinder or axle seal. Once the shoes are contaminated you need to replace them, as well as, clean-up the drums.

 

Quick follow up - Still looking for someone around Boston who will turn the new drums for me. No luck yet. Just for kicks, I popped on the new set of drums straight out of the box. And when I spin the wheels, I can hear that the shoes rubbing in one spot on each rotation. Wheel spins freely for almost a full turn, then rubs and stops in the same spot every time. The rubbing happens on each side individually, aka with the other side totally removed. Does this confirm that they're out of round, like HeyYou predicted? If a circle is a circle, and it's spinning straight, I can't think of what else would make this happen.

Also, who the heck turns brakes these days? None of the machine shops around here will, and none of the garages know anyone who will do it either.

Thanks again!

 

Sorry Alloro! I posted my 4:30pm reply before seeing your 4:10pm. By greasy residue, you mean the stuff on my finger or something else? The stuff on finger feels like a dry fine powder. Brake pad material according to O'Reilly guy. Wheel cylinders are new and don't seem to be leaking, but axle seals have not been replaced.

Would this theory mesh with the fact that the new drums rub in only one spot when rotated by hand?

Thanks so much for the help!

 

In the picture the reside looks wet, but since you can feel it and I can't, then it's dry.

The new drums aren't necessarily out of round so much as they could be "off-center." It might not even be an issue with the drum, your axle could have the slightest movement to it and the drum will hit the shoes unevenly. This is not anything to worry about. Every drum I've ever spun does this "hit the high side" thing.

 

Thanks Alloro! That's exactly the symptom! Hitting the high side. And yes, the residue is definitely a fine dry powder. I couldn't find anything tacky or oily in there.

New drums are installed and being test driven currently. I've got the spikey adjustment wheel backed quite a way off, so that the brakes just drag in that one high spot. Does this sound right? I'm not sure how much the rear brakes are engaging, but the parking brake works with the pedal down about 80% of the way.

 

The brakes will auto-adjust simply by driving it. Every time you back up, and step on the pedal, they will tighten up a bit.

When I was doing this for a living, I would turn rotors/drums, even brand new ones, before installation, simply because I hated doing jobs twice..... The drum *should* center itself on the axle hub, so if you are still getting pedal bounce, turning the drums *should* fix it.