</P>


</P>


Written by a Mobil 1 troll that hates it when someone tries to make a living selling the "other" oil(like Kale) whosupports this website financially.</P>


</P>

 

Too bad really. When those that claim to know are proven WRONG. As I have said prevously, I am not against Amsoil or you two, I am against your BS claims. I have used Amsoil and have never experienced any problems with it, then again the Amsoil salesman that I bought my R/T off of changed the oil every 3,000 miles like your supose to. And unlike you I do not need to resort to PETTY LITTLE flamings such as the one above "Written by a Mobil 1 troll".sgbofav
Your claims of the product being Gods gift to the world is what I have a problem with, that and using money to try and push someone around."who supports this website financially."sgbofav
And now that you have responded in this PETTY way and showing little to no tact about it, I would NEVER buy this product. I never had a problem with someone trying to make an HONEST living by selling a product, but I DO have a big problem with bad or false information being used to do it. And as I have always made sure to state at the end of each of my posts about it, I say that I have NO problems with the product and have used it with NO problems.
The sales tactics being used reminds me of SNAKE OIL.
I thought that this forum was open to everyone, but apparently you would like to exclude those that would question the validity of your claims. And until you would quit contradicting, him as well as youself, I will still have a problem with it.
I happen to like the people here and don't want to here of them having to rebuild or replace their motor after your claims prove to be bad info.25,000+ miles before an oil change(BAD INFO)
If anyone else would like to be enlightened on this check out the posts in Amsoil questions & answers.

 

<U>but I DO have a big problem with bad or false information being used to do it.</U> </P>


<U>25,000+ miles before an oil change(BAD INFO)
</U></P>


My challenge to you is to find an unhappy Amsoil user who lost their engine because of the extended drain intervals. We are not selling or preaching about "snake oil" nor are we decieving anyone. We are listing Amsoil's claims based on what is written on their website as well as their dealer manuals. </P>


Do you really think they would put theirclaims or recommendations in writing in hopes of being sued? They have recommended extendedoil change intervals for over 20 years. Where is all yourfactual data that proves that their oil is causing engines to burn-up?</P>


<U>When those that claim to know are proven WRONG</U></P>


Show me where I was proven wrong based on factual data, not your "dirty oil" theory.</P>


I stand by the troll remark based on your relentless trashing of Amsoil's oil change recommendations, your attempt to sway potential customers away from Amsoil , and your constant deception, lies, bad info, etc. Your the one with the bad info not me.</P>

 

"My challenge to you is to find an unhappy Amsoil user who lost their engine because of the extended drain intervals. We are not selling or preaching about "snake oil" nor are we decieving anyone. We are listing Amsoil's claims based on what is written on their website as well as their dealer manuals."

First I would have to be able to find one, besides the one I bought the car off of who changed it every 3,000 miles. That is Amsoils claim, who is trying to sell a product, if it was a great as you both claim why hasn't most people heard of it until now. I mean geezz, they've been around for 30 frickin' years. If it were that great everyone would be using it by now, and all the others would be out of business.


"Do you really think they would put their claims or recommendations in writing in hopes of being sued? They have recommended extended oil change intervals for over 20 years. Where is all your factual data that proves that their oil is causing engines to burn-up?"

Who's to say they haven't been sued or have complaints, they say that. I never said that it has burned up any motor, but then again who uses it. And who gives you your info, Amsoil the ones that will pay off or try to cover up any mishaps like alot of other businesses. I've only known one and again he changed it every 3,000 miles. He thought that claim was BS too.

"Show me where I was proven wrong based on factual data, not your "dirty oil" theory."

1,000,000+ ASE certified mechanics, the ones I've talked to who laughed at these claims.

"I stand by the troll remark based on your relentless trashing of Amsoil's oil change recommendations, your attempt to sway potential customers away from Amsoil , and your constant deception, lies, bad info, etc. Your the one with the bad info not me."

I have never tried to stop anyone from purchasing Amsoil, what I am trying to do is inform people of the truth. I have said many times that I HAVE used it, without problems, and that I have nothing against Amsoil. I only have a problem with your PETTY FLAMING, a sure sign of weakness, and Amsoils' BS claims, of which the only one to use it that I have EVER known thought it was BS and changed it every 3,000 miles.

 

I apologize for the Troll remark.

If you want to try Amsoil and don't want to change your oil once a year, feel free to change it whenever you feel most comfortable. Just make sure to change it within the limits prescribed by Amsoil : http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf

You support your Amsoil dealer more by changing your oil more often. Amsoil dealers don't make much on 1 year or 25,000 oil changes. Support the "little guy" and try Amsoil, you won't regret it.

 

Here is an oil analysis that I found on another forum. </P>


<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Report from Oil Analyzers Inc
Iron 94
Chromium 0
Lead 59
Copper 10
Tin 0
Aluminum 3
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 13
Boron 31
Sodium 8
Magnesium 764
Calcium 2101
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1109
Zinc 1362
Molybdenum 7
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0

Fuel &lt;1
VIS @ 100C 11.40
Water 0
Glycol 0

TBN 4.63
Oxid 14.0
Nitr 13.0

"No corrective action required"

--------

These results are from a 1997 2.7 4x4 Tacoma with 56,994 miles on it. <U>The oil was in the truck for 6 months and 6,853 miles. </U>The oil was Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 with an Amsoil SDF filter. The oil was in the truck for 4 racing events, two trips to the drag strip, and a bottle and a half of nitrous. I don't think it did to shabby, even on an extended drain interval.

</FONT></P>


<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>And another from a different lab This guy added some other products into the oil that I'm not familiar with.</FONT></P>


http://home.comcast.net/~armtdm/Buick.pdf</P>


<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Previous sample (10,041 miles)no filter change but one quart drained and added at 6000 miles. Previous two 12,000 mile runs on this report had the filter changed at about 6000 miles.

This sample had 8 ounces of the Brew added at 6000 miles and about 1 ounce every 1000 miles. About 50-50 highway, several long 500 mile plus trips in this OCI. Amsoil SDF 29 filter with a Carquest air filter. Schaeffer's Neutra added to gas once every couple of months. This was a 7 month OCI.13 miles one way to work.

Oil Filter was not changed during the OCI. Cut open after removal and found no visible contamination to the naked eye.

Note that the Boron level in the Amsoil has definitely increased over previous samples, also in my other engine samples as well.
This TBN was 2.7, previous was 4.5 and previous to that was a 4.9. Not sure when the method of determining TBN changed. Previous higher number may be due to the one quart exchange at the half way point which would boost the TBN.

Numbers look good, copper, still high but very gradually coming down. Lead is constant and iron has dropped nicely. The Brew has definitely increased the viscosity though, a 76, mid 40W. Previous sample was a 69.2 Seems to wear well though. The Schaeffers #132 probably not necessary with the Amsoil (a high 30W) but only 6 ounces was added.

Other conclusion, no need to change filter during the oil change interval. </FONT></P>


<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>

And another: Amsoil 5w30 '02 TrailBlazer 24899 miles (on the oil)</FONT></P>


Posted by Andy H </P>


(Changed to Amsoil after a 4013 mile factory fill. Stock air filter, AMSOIL SDF oil filter. 28913 miles on vehicle. 4.7 liter.

</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>code:</FONT>
<HR>
<PRE style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace; FONT-SIZE: x-small">Iron 52
Chrome 1
Lead 2
Copper 66
Tin 0
Aluminum 7
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 67
Boron 22
Sodium 8
Magnesium 624
Calcium 1781
Barium 0
Phosphorus 923
Zinc 1226
Moly 5
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0
Fuel 0
Visc@100c 15.11
Water 0
Glycol 0
Nitration 13.0
Oxidation 15.0
TBN 4.86</PRE>
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>


<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Oil had thickened from a high 30 to a low 40. It certainly would have made it another 101 miles.

Edit: Added model year to title. And engine size.

[ November 22, 2003, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Andy H ]
</P>
<HR>



Posted by TooSlick

A nice illustration of the type of normal oxidative thickening I mentioned in a post several weeks back. The oxidative thickening model I showed predicted a 30% increase in viscosity @ 100C after 25k miles. That's almost exactly what you see here. This is about as good as you'll do with a 25k change interval in terms of oxidative thickening under ideal conditions. As you can see, going from a 5w-30 to a 5w-40 has no effect on the protective qualities of this formulation.

Rate of iron wear is just over 2 ppm/1000 miles.... That's exceptionally good for a GM, V-8 engine - even with a 3000 mile drain interval. Aside from the characteristic Vortec copper wear, all the other wear metals are down in the noise level.

Ted
</P>
<HR>



Posted by Pablo (Member # 512) on
< language=1.3 =text/>
document.write(timestamp(new Date(2003,10,23,0,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0));
</>
November 23, 2003 12:16 AM<NO><span class="dateat-0">November 23, 2003</span> <span class="timeat-0">12:16 AM</span></NO>:

wow
</P>
<HR>




</P>
<HR>



Posted by Sin City </P>


24,899 miles on this oil and the TBN is 4.86!
</P>
<HR>



Posted by Leo </P>


Wow. Take some courage to leave the oil in that long! Looks like it there is no problems at all. Gotta love the lead reading!!
</P></FONT>


<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>I have also read where the oil results were not as good. This was because the owner was using too high of an octane grade, causing lots of unburnt fuel to dilute the oil. </P></FONT>

 

Its hard to argue with ANALYSIS, these are not merely claims, these are facts. ANALYSIS speaks the truth , not opinions!!

Feel free to check out the other threads with more "facts" from customers.<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">

 

What I would like to see is an independent and unbiased, if such a thing even exists(I've read, heard and seen some pretty shady dealings before), lab or test facility such as UL test all brands and types of oil in identical vehicles, mileage and all, and in the exact same conditions. Those are the results I would like to see.

 

</P>


</P>


Check out the link I posted in the Q&amp;A topic of Performance Lubricants forum.</P>

 

I have done what you said and checked out Amsoils own site, and to my delight I was 100% right(or at least mostly right) on the 25,000+mile claim being BS .Here is Amsoils own words:


"Personal passenger vehicles with gasoline engines: drain oil at 25,000-mile or one-year intervals, whichever comes first.
Turbocharged gasoline engines: drain oil at intervals up to three times as long as those recommended by the engine manufacturer or at six-month intervals, whichever comes first.
High performance and racing engines: Drain oil at engine manufacturer's recommended drain intervals.
Light-duty and nonturbocharged diesel engines: drain oil at intervals up to twice as long as engine manufacturer's recommended drain intervals when used oil analysis supports these longer drain intervals or at six-month intervals.
Heavy-duty and turbocharged diesel engines: this oil is not recommended for use in this application.
Motorcycles, ATVs, etc.: use engine manufacturer's recommended drain interval.
Marine craft and occasionally used gasoline engines: drain oil at intervals up to three times as long as those recommended by the engine manufacturer or at one-year intervals, whichever comes first.
Gasoline fleet vehicles and industrial engines: drain oil at intervals up to three times the engine manufacturer's recommended drain intervals or at six-month intervals, whichever comes first."

This is Amsoils recommended oil change interval. YOU have always claimed 25,000+ mile oil change intervals which, here in Amsoils own words, is only partially true. You failed to mention, in every post, that they recommend an oil change every 25,000 miles OR ONE YEAR, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. What Amsoil claims is a little more realistic, but as I have said from the beginning, the 25,000+ mile claim that YOU are making is BS.

If I(or anyone else here) were to have read, and believed what YOU said about the 25,000+ mile oil change interval, and bought the oil, flush and filter, I would be screwed. I average 7,000-8,000 miles a year on my daily driver. According to what YOU have said/claimed, it would be 3+ years before my first oil change. If something were to happen to my engine as a result of oil failure, even before the 25,000 miles, but after one year it would NOT be covered by Amsoils warranty. But by YOUR claims I would be under the FALSE notion that everything is covered by Amsoils warranty for all 3+ years so long as I didn't exceed the 25,000 miles without getting an oil analysis done to OK it past that point.

I can go along with a vehicle that travels 25,000 miles within one year being OK at that oil change interval, but not 25,000+ miles regardless of time.

Anyone out there with a modified vehicle, without Amsoils written approval, is NOT covered under Amsoils warranty.

Amsoil picks and chooses which testimonials, none of which are negative, they will post. They do not post any negative feedback.

As I have and continue to say, I have used Amsoil without any problems and have nothing bad to say about their oil.

Before I did some checking on Amsoils claims, I thought you were just repeating bad BS information that Amsoil had provided you. I now know that YOU, and not Amsoil, is at fault for the bad BS information I have been disputing. If YOU would have included this one little added statement,"OR ONE YEAR, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST", none of this butting of heads would have ever taken place.

As I have said, I'm just trying to inform the good people of the Dodge Forums, so that they can make the right decision for them and their vehicles based on good information and NOT BS. <img border="0" src=smileys/smiley20.gif border="0"> <edited><editID>71ROADRUNNER</editID><editDate>37967.1925231482</editDate></edited>