Amsoil Questions and answ
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Professional
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From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
AMSOIL has been recommending this drain period for their OILS for 30 years, They guarentee it. You can get 25k out of our oils with a filter change at 12.5k (our regular SDF filters have 100% more capacity than others, and trap smaller particles) Guaranteed, in writing. No other manufacturer will guarantee there oils at that interval. With our Dual Remote, Filtering out particles smaller than a micron I'd say is very important, no other filtration system on the market can do that...that I'm aware of. This product will keep your oil very very clean, allowing it to last much longer. Even exceeding the 25k mark. Now if you ran Mobil 1 with our Bypass system you might get close to the same life. But Mobile wont guarantee it.
AMSOIL does out perform other oils and that is a fact. I'm not saying other oils can't perform well, They just don't perform as well. While also saving you money.
I won't dispute your experiance with amsoil. I find it odd. but there are many many others, that have noticed a significant gain by using AMSOIL. Even those switch from Mobil. If you are happy with Mobil 1 I'm not going to try and talk you out of it.
AMSOIL is not sold in stores unless they are contacted by a dealer, such as myself and offered the Retail on the shelf program. Its their choice. AMSOIL chose direct sales 30 years ago and will remain that way. It costs a lot less than millions of dollars in TV commercials running round the clock. And it allows a personal contact for customers and business owners. You make a lot of friends in this business.
AMSOIL is used in NASCAR and other major events, but the costs of an advertising campaign are way to expensive, AMSOIL is however Sponsoring a 2 time champion in MOTOCROSS and a National Champ in Speed Boats, Not near the Dollars needed to sponsor in these areas. The other threads in this forum have more info about our racing background if you'd like to read about it.
1 qt of 10w30 high performance is $4.55 for a ( PC )preferred customer and $5.85 retail
Our Racing oils are more expensive at about $6.45 PC or 8.35 retail.
Hope that answers your questions.
take care
Kale<edited><editID>SyntheticsMan</editID><editDate>37960.066087963</editDate></edited>
AMSOIL does out perform other oils and that is a fact. I'm not saying other oils can't perform well, They just don't perform as well. While also saving you money.
I won't dispute your experiance with amsoil. I find it odd. but there are many many others, that have noticed a significant gain by using AMSOIL. Even those switch from Mobil. If you are happy with Mobil 1 I'm not going to try and talk you out of it.
AMSOIL is not sold in stores unless they are contacted by a dealer, such as myself and offered the Retail on the shelf program. Its their choice. AMSOIL chose direct sales 30 years ago and will remain that way. It costs a lot less than millions of dollars in TV commercials running round the clock. And it allows a personal contact for customers and business owners. You make a lot of friends in this business.
AMSOIL is used in NASCAR and other major events, but the costs of an advertising campaign are way to expensive, AMSOIL is however Sponsoring a 2 time champion in MOTOCROSS and a National Champ in Speed Boats, Not near the Dollars needed to sponsor in these areas. The other threads in this forum have more info about our racing background if you'd like to read about it.
1 qt of 10w30 high performance is $4.55 for a ( PC )preferred customer and $5.85 retail
Our Racing oils are more expensive at about $6.45 PC or 8.35 retail.
Hope that answers your questions.
take care
Kale<edited><editID>SyntheticsMan</editID><editDate>37960.066087963</editDate></edited>
Legend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,543
Likes: 2
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
The person I bought the car off of was also a firm believer and became a dealer. He also changed the oil every 3,000 miles and didn't go with the 12.5k/25k change interval. I cannot dispute the oils' quality, I just didn't see any difference at all when I switched. The proof would be in 100% equal and independent testing, I noticed in the oil test listed that the Mobil 1 was a thinner/lighter weight(15W50 to the 20W50). I run Castrol GTX in my Roadrunner. I had switched to Valvoline with the engine that use to be in it and shortly after that it spun a bearing or two. Bacause of this I will never use or endorse any Valvoline products. I cannot use any synthetic in it yet because the engine only has a few hundred miles on it.
As far as the guarantee goes, my Dynomax ceramic coated headers have a lifetime warranty that even covers rust and within a year there is already rust in some spots. Guarantees and warrantys usually mean very little. I do not doubt the oil, I do doubt some of their claims.
As far as the guarantee goes, my Dynomax ceramic coated headers have a lifetime warranty that even covers rust and within a year there is already rust in some spots. Guarantees and warrantys usually mean very little. I do not doubt the oil, I do doubt some of their claims.
Legend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,543
Likes: 2
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
"AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are designed and engineered for extended drain interval service. The color the AMSOIL on your dipstick (or ANY oil for that matter) has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the oil is suitable for continued use or if it should be drained and replaced. Use the recommended change intervals for both the oil and engine oil filters as specified by AMSOIL.
It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles."
If this is true then why is it that it doesn't happen to new vehicles? You said yourself that color change is due to contaminates and soot particles from the combustion process, but you say it isn't an indicator of the oils lubrication ability, which is true. It just means that the oil is full of harmful and damaging particles and contaminates reguardless of their size. No matter the size of the contaminate particles, they will still do damage and the more and longer that they're in your engine, the more damage your going to have. I know of cars and trucks that have ran for years on the same unchanged conventional motor oil without loosing any of it's "lubrication ability", but still became scrap metal due to the contaminates in the oil, not due to oil breakdown. As far as ball bearing tests go, oil enhancing products like Slick 50 out performed all other oils. How? Why? simple. It is mostly bleech, which is a very thin yet good lubricant. I have watched John Force blast down the 1/4 and win with 0 oil pressure and no engine damage and his top fuel funnycar runs Castrol Syntec. Now thats impressive, but synthetics adhear to the engine parts so well that something like this is possible. The type of oil, conventional or synthetic, can make an engine out last the vehicle that it's in with simple routine maintainance and common sense. Synthetics are better than conventional oils in just about every way, sometimes to a fault( if there is an oil leak, switching to synthetic will make it worse). Synthetics will also provide minimal power and fuel mileage gains as well as reducing operating temperatures. And as I have said before, I have nothing against Amsoil, just the some of the BS claims and some bad info, not all but some.
It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles."
If this is true then why is it that it doesn't happen to new vehicles? You said yourself that color change is due to contaminates and soot particles from the combustion process, but you say it isn't an indicator of the oils lubrication ability, which is true. It just means that the oil is full of harmful and damaging particles and contaminates reguardless of their size. No matter the size of the contaminate particles, they will still do damage and the more and longer that they're in your engine, the more damage your going to have. I know of cars and trucks that have ran for years on the same unchanged conventional motor oil without loosing any of it's "lubrication ability", but still became scrap metal due to the contaminates in the oil, not due to oil breakdown. As far as ball bearing tests go, oil enhancing products like Slick 50 out performed all other oils. How? Why? simple. It is mostly bleech, which is a very thin yet good lubricant. I have watched John Force blast down the 1/4 and win with 0 oil pressure and no engine damage and his top fuel funnycar runs Castrol Syntec. Now thats impressive, but synthetics adhear to the engine parts so well that something like this is possible. The type of oil, conventional or synthetic, can make an engine out last the vehicle that it's in with simple routine maintainance and common sense. Synthetics are better than conventional oils in just about every way, sometimes to a fault( if there is an oil leak, switching to synthetic will make it worse). Synthetics will also provide minimal power and fuel mileage gains as well as reducing operating temperatures. And as I have said before, I have nothing against Amsoil, just the some of the BS claims and some bad info, not all but some.
Professional
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
Originally Posted by 71ROADRUNNER
"AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are designed and engineered for extended drain interval service. The color the AMSOIL on your dipstick (or ANY oil for that matter) has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the oil is suitable for continued use or if it should be drained and replaced. Use the recommended change intervals for both the oil and engine oil filters as specified by AMSOIL.
It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles."
If this is true then why is it that it doesn't happen to new vehicles? You said yourself that color change is due to contaminates and soot particles from the combustion process, but you say it isn't an indicator of the oils lubrication ability, which is true. It just means that the oil is full of harmful and damaging particles and contaminates reguardless of their size. No matter the size of the contaminate particles, they will still do damage and the more and longer that they're in your engine, the more damage your going to have. I know of cars and trucks that have ran for years on the same unchanged conventional motor oil without loosing any of it's "lubrication ability", but still became scrap metal due to the contaminates in the oil, not due to oil breakdown</P>
</P>
And as I have said before, I have nothing against Amsoil, just the some of the BS claims and some bad info, not all but some.
It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles."
If this is true then why is it that it doesn't happen to new vehicles? You said yourself that color change is due to contaminates and soot particles from the combustion process, but you say it isn't an indicator of the oils lubrication ability, which is true. It just means that the oil is full of harmful and damaging particles and contaminates reguardless of their size. No matter the size of the contaminate particles, they will still do damage and the more and longer that they're in your engine, the more damage your going to have. I know of cars and trucks that have ran for years on the same unchanged conventional motor oil without loosing any of it's "lubrication ability", but still became scrap metal due to the contaminates in the oil, not due to oil breakdown</P>
</P>
And as I have said before, I have nothing against Amsoil, just the some of the BS claims and some bad info, not all but some.
</P>
</P>
The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine. This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils.</P>
When Amsoil oil cleans the engine of these particulates, they enter the oil filter and the larger more damaging / abrasive pieces are filtered out. The primary cause of the oil darkening is from carbon or soot as Amsoil calls it. This soot does not cause massive metal wear contrary to what you may believe. If you leave any deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries). These deposits also cause the engine to run hotter. The engine has to work harder because the deposits burden the engine with increased friction .</P>
</P>
When I decided to make the switch to synthetic oil for the first time, I decided to use Mobil 1 as my first batch because I didn't want to waste the Amsoil oil . I ran this oil for 5000 miles. I thenpoured a bottle of Amsoil's engine flush intomy crankcase with the Mobil 1 at 49,000.Iidled my engine for 20 minues like they recommended and thenI fully drained the M1 and the flush out of the system. Now my engine was fully prepped and ready to run an extended drain interval. The oil in my Dakota currently has 11,000 miles on it and it hasused anyextra oil. The only oil I added, was when I changed the filter at six months. My oil is darkened but it is not black.</P>
Amsoil stresses the importance of an engine flush prior to engaging in extended drain intervals. This is to prevent the above mentioned deposits/ contaminates from effecting the oils ability to lubricate, clean, as well as prevent other things like the formation of sludge. </P>
You would not want to run and extended drain interval with an engine with more than 30,000 miles without doing some sort of engine flush first. I switched my Ram to Amsoil at 125,000 miles (it had petroleum its whole life). The oil looked nasty when I flushed it for the first time. I have yet to "spring" any leaks in my old truck. like I said before, new engines have not had time to accumulate large deposits that require the use of an engine flush. Another product that is highly recommendedon oil analysis websites is www.auto-rx.com. This product does the same thing as Amsoil's engine flush but it works more slowly.</P>
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An to conclude this plesent exchange of ideas, I am posting an oil analysis of a Dodge Ram with the Cummins that has over 329,000 miles using Amsoil's dual bypass filtration system. Kale the amsoil dealer here has the same system. The drain plug was never removed from the engine, only the filters were replaced. You'll see that all the wear numbers are extremely low indicating that the oil is still doing its job lubricating and preventing friction. You'll also notice that the other "contaminates" were very minimal.</P>
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<FONT face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>I was considering becoming an Amsoil Dealer when the guy showed me this analysis. It definetly helped me make my decision. Can you see why?
I run a business doing on-site oil changes and see vehicles/oil in all kinds of conditions. After finding this board I am considering doing some samples just out of curiosity. The worst I've seen so far is a Ford 300-6 that went 18,000 miles on dino oil. I squezzed out about a quart of the black stuff. People do amazing things to company vehicles.
Here's ths results for the Dodge. I just thought some may find this interesting.
'94 Dodge Cummins/250/PU
Initial Fill Amsoil HDD 5W30, Amsoil Full Flow/Bypass Kit
Full Flows Changed @ 25,000 mi/ Bypass @ 50,000mi
Topped off with AME 15W40 more recently
miles on unit- 332,600
miles on oil 329,148
Analysis performed by CTC
Iron, 76
Chromium 0
Lead 22
Copper 4
Tin 6
Aluminum 9
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 5
Boron 1
Sodium 0
Magnesium 321
Calcium 3792
Barium 219
Phosphorus 1056
Zinc 1354
Moly 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0
Fuel <1
Vis@100c 12.54
Water 0
Soot/Solids .3
TAN 3.84
TBN 8.41
By the way, many of these miles were with the truck completely loaded with oil going from the warehouse to deliveries across the country.
Adam </FONT></P>
It took about a Gallon every 25000 miles, including topping off from filter replacement.
</P>
</P>
Bill,</P>
</P><edited><editID>sgbofav</editID><editDate>37961.4598842593</editDate></edited>
Legend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,543
Likes: 2
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
"It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is."SyntheticsMan
"The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine. This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils."sgbofav
Right here is one example of both of you contradicting each others statements. He says "oil color is not an indication of how dirty it is" and your saying, as I do, that it is due to "deposits, soot and other particles" from the engine. He says it isn't from being dirty and here your saying that it is from being dirty, it would be nice if you two could get your stories straight.(deposits, soot and other particles=DIRTY)
"The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning"sgbofav
All motor oils(some oils can be purchased in non-detergent form), conventional and synthetic, have detergents in them to clean the engine and it's parts. You mention the detergents as if Amsoil is the only oil out there with it.
"This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils."sgbofav
All oils, petroleum based or not, will accumulate deposits from the combustion process. According to what you have said here if someone were to put Amsoil in a new engine, instead of petroleum based oil(the oil your blaming the deposits for), then with Amsoil the color would never change.
"When Amsoil oil cleans the engine of these particulates, they enter the oil filter and the larger more damaging / abrasive pieces are filtered out. The primary cause of the oil darkening is from carbon or soot as Amsoil calls it. This soot does not cause massive metal wear contrary to what you may believe. If you leave any deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries). These deposits also cause the engine to run hotter. The engine has to work harder because the deposits burden the engine with increased friction ."sgbofav
I never claimed claimed that the contaminates and soot/carbon that the filter doesn't catch cause "MASSIVE metal wear", I just said that it does cause wear.
"If you leave ANY deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries)". Here you say "leaving ANY deposits(AKA DARKER OIL) in the engine OVER TIME" causes problems in general. Here is another contradiction. The 25,000+ mile oil changing schedule is way too long of a time. Both of you are saying that leaving particle, contaminate, soot and carbon filled Amsoil in the engine for a very long period of time is ok. Make up your minds. Leaving ANY DEPOSITS in OVER TIME is bad in your own words, but because it's Amsoil it's ok.LMAO!!!! And obviously the contaminates/particles are in the Amsoil or it would remain as clean as when it was put in. "My oil is darkened but it is not black."sgbofav My R/T had only had Amsoil since new and when I changed it at 3,000 miles it was dark just like any other oil.
"You would not want to run and extended drain interval with an engine with more than 30,000 miles without doing some sort of engine flush first. I switched my Ram to Amsoil at 125,000 miles (it had petroleum its whole life). The oil looked nasty when I flushed it for the first time. I have yet to "spring" any leaks in my old truck. like I said before, new engines have not had time to accumulate large deposits that require the use of an engine flush."sgbofav
I didn't say an older vehicle would sping leaks when switched from conventional to synthetic. I said if a vehicle ALREADY HAS an oil leak that it would leak more when switched to a synthetic.
Both of you have not answered ANYTHING(except price), you DO continue to talk AROUND the subject. You continue to claim features that most, conventional and synthetic oil have as if it is an Amsoil exclusive. And I hope no one else buys the "25,000+ mile oil change intervals" because that is just BAD and WRONG info for any oil. And if your filters are so superior, why do both of you run dual extra large filters? Isn't one of those miracle filters enough? While I'm on the filter subject, most filters catch sub-micron sized particles and have a rubber flap that blocks unfiltered oil from returning to the oil pan.
"The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine. This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils."sgbofav
Right here is one example of both of you contradicting each others statements. He says "oil color is not an indication of how dirty it is" and your saying, as I do, that it is due to "deposits, soot and other particles" from the engine. He says it isn't from being dirty and here your saying that it is from being dirty, it would be nice if you two could get your stories straight.(deposits, soot and other particles=DIRTY)
"The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning"sgbofav
All motor oils(some oils can be purchased in non-detergent form), conventional and synthetic, have detergents in them to clean the engine and it's parts. You mention the detergents as if Amsoil is the only oil out there with it.
"This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils."sgbofav
All oils, petroleum based or not, will accumulate deposits from the combustion process. According to what you have said here if someone were to put Amsoil in a new engine, instead of petroleum based oil(the oil your blaming the deposits for), then with Amsoil the color would never change.
"When Amsoil oil cleans the engine of these particulates, they enter the oil filter and the larger more damaging / abrasive pieces are filtered out. The primary cause of the oil darkening is from carbon or soot as Amsoil calls it. This soot does not cause massive metal wear contrary to what you may believe. If you leave any deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries). These deposits also cause the engine to run hotter. The engine has to work harder because the deposits burden the engine with increased friction ."sgbofav
I never claimed claimed that the contaminates and soot/carbon that the filter doesn't catch cause "MASSIVE metal wear", I just said that it does cause wear.
"If you leave ANY deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries)". Here you say "leaving ANY deposits(AKA DARKER OIL) in the engine OVER TIME" causes problems in general. Here is another contradiction. The 25,000+ mile oil changing schedule is way too long of a time. Both of you are saying that leaving particle, contaminate, soot and carbon filled Amsoil in the engine for a very long period of time is ok. Make up your minds. Leaving ANY DEPOSITS in OVER TIME is bad in your own words, but because it's Amsoil it's ok.LMAO!!!! And obviously the contaminates/particles are in the Amsoil or it would remain as clean as when it was put in. "My oil is darkened but it is not black."sgbofav My R/T had only had Amsoil since new and when I changed it at 3,000 miles it was dark just like any other oil.
"You would not want to run and extended drain interval with an engine with more than 30,000 miles without doing some sort of engine flush first. I switched my Ram to Amsoil at 125,000 miles (it had petroleum its whole life). The oil looked nasty when I flushed it for the first time. I have yet to "spring" any leaks in my old truck. like I said before, new engines have not had time to accumulate large deposits that require the use of an engine flush."sgbofav
I didn't say an older vehicle would sping leaks when switched from conventional to synthetic. I said if a vehicle ALREADY HAS an oil leak that it would leak more when switched to a synthetic.
Both of you have not answered ANYTHING(except price), you DO continue to talk AROUND the subject. You continue to claim features that most, conventional and synthetic oil have as if it is an Amsoil exclusive. And I hope no one else buys the "25,000+ mile oil change intervals" because that is just BAD and WRONG info for any oil. And if your filters are so superior, why do both of you run dual extra large filters? Isn't one of those miracle filters enough? While I'm on the filter subject, most filters catch sub-micron sized particles and have a rubber flap that blocks unfiltered oil from returning to the oil pan.
Professional
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
[QUOTE=71ROADRUNNER]"It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is."SyntheticsMan
"The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine. This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils."sgbofav
Right here is one example of both of you contradicting each others statements. He says "oil color is not an indication of how dirty it is" and your saying, as I do, that it is due to "deposits, soot and other particles" from the engine. He says it isn't from being dirty and here your saying that it is from being dirty, it would be nice if you two could get your stories straight.(deposits, soot and other particles=DIRTY) </P>
The color is a sign of carbon which causes the discoloration. The detergent action of any good oil will cause an oil to discolor. I never said it was because it was dirty, i said it was doing it's job of cleaning the engine as well as lubricating it. Regardless of color, the oil is still doing it's job by preventing any further deposits from occuring as well as preventing metal wear due to friction. When a good oil like Amsoil cleans the engine the largerdeposits travel into the filter and are removed from circulation. The discoloration remains.
"The color change is nothing more than a sign that Amsoil's extra detergency (in it's oil) is doing it's job and cleaning"sgbofav
All motor oils(some oils can be purchased in non-detergent form), conventional and synthetic, have detergents in them to clean the engine and it's parts. You mention the detergents as if Amsoil is the only oil out there with it. </P>
Your correct that most oils have detergents in them. I never implied that Amsoil is the only one. Amsoil does have a robust package off additives though.
"This doesn't happen in new engines because they have not had time to build up deposits from using petroleum based oils."sgbofav
All oils, petroleum based or not, will accumulate deposits from the combustion process. According to what you have said here if someone were to put Amsoil in a new engine, instead of petroleum based oil(the oil your blaming the deposits for), then with Amsoil the color would never change. </P>
They won't have deposits thanks to Amsoil's additives but the oil will still darken due to carbon which is a byproduct of combustion. The carbon particulates are too small to be filtered by any oil filter (except maybe a bypass set-up). They are carried in suspension in the oil where they are harmless. I base this on oil analysis results.
"When Amsoil oil cleans the engine of these particulates, they enter the oil filter and the larger more damaging / abrasive pieces are filtered out. The primary cause of the oil darkening is from carbon or soot as Amsoil calls it. This soot does not cause massive metal wear contrary to what you may believe. If you leave any deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries). These deposits also cause the engine to run hotter. The engine has to work harder because the deposits burden the engine with increased friction ."sgbofav
I never claimed claimed that the contaminates and soot/carbon that the filter doesn't catch cause "MASSIVE metal wear", I just said that it does cause wear.
"If you leave ANY deposits in the engine over time, they restrict oil from entering key areas (kind of like clogged arteries)". Here you say "leaving ANY deposits(AKA DARKER OIL) in the engine OVER TIME" causes problems in general. </P>
</P>
I said deposits like sludge and varnish not "darker oil". "Darker oil" is a term that you used as a "catch all" to describe all bad things in oil. Carbon suspended in Amsoildoes not cause sludge and varnish.</P>
Here is another contradiction. The 25,000+ mile oil changing schedule is way too long of a time. <U>Both of you are saying that leaving particle, contaminate, soot and carbon filled Amsoil in the engine for a very long period of time is ok</U>. Make up your minds. Leaving ANY DEPOSITS in OVER TIME is bad in your own words, but because it's Amsoil it's ok.LMAO!!!! And obviously the contaminates/particles are in the Amsoil or it would remain as clean as when it was put in. </P>
Agreed on all ofthe deposits, except the carbon soot issue. The carbon does not cause the engine to be restricted nor does it prevent the oil from lubricating which is the most important part.We never said Amsoil is a "cure-all" or super oil. Amsoil will discolor like any other oil. This is alsodependent on how dirty the engine is to begin with. When I changed my oil filter at six months, my oil did become clearer because of the new filter and because of the new additives. Did it concern me that my oil was dark before I changed my filter? Absolutely not!</P>
We never said anything about leavingsoot or carbon, we were referring to other byproducts of poorly made petroleum oils.</P>
</P>
"My oil is darkened but it is not black."sgbofav My R/T had only had Amsoil since new and when I changed it at 3,000 miles it was dark just like any other oil.
"You would not want to run and extended drain interval with an engine with more than 30,000 miles without doing some sort of engine flush first. I switched my Ram to Amsoil at 125,000 miles (it had petroleum its whole life). The oil looked nasty when I flushed it for the first time. I have yet to "spring" any leaks in my old truck. like I said before, new engines have not had time to accumulate large deposits that require the use of an engine flush."sgbofav
I didn't say an older vehicle would sping leaks when switched from conventional to synthetic. <U>I said if a vehicle ALREADY HAS an oil leak that it would leak more when switched to a synthetic.</U>
</P>
That wasn't directed at you. I was trying to prove a point that you can safely put Amsoil in older engines that have been well maintained.</P>
Both of you have not answered ANYTHING(except price), you DO continue to talk AROUND the subject. You continue to claim features that most, conventional and synthetic oil have as if it is an Amsoil exclusive. <U>And I hope no one else buys the "25,000+ mile oil change intervals" because that is just BAD and WRONG info for any oil.</U> And if your filters are so superior, why do both of you run dual extra large filters? Isn't one of those miracle filters enough? While I'm on the filter subject, most filters catch sub-micron sized particles and have a rubber flap that blocks unfiltered oil from returning to the oil pan. </P>
The flaps job is for oil pressure. If the pressure is too high because the filter is clogged with debris, it opens up. Thismeans that the oil stops being filtered. No filtration is a bad thing . Amsoil prevents this from happening by 1st. recommending an engine flush for older or higher mileage engines, and 2nd requiring a filter change at 6 months or 12,500 miles (whichever comes first).</P>
So, your the lubrication engineer out to save the world from Amsoil's evil plan to destroy engines with excessive wear and "dirty oil" because they recommend 1 year or 25,000 mile oil change intervals? Give me a break! 30 years in business with no engine failures is evidence that Amsoil works just fine. </P>
I don't have the bypass system on my Dakota yet but, it is a planned addition because it filters the oil ten times better than any regular oilfilter which meansa fewthings:</P>
Less oil changes (proven with oil analysis results)<
Legend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,543
Likes: 2
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
No, I just don't like people like you trying so hard to sell something, that you will give bad information to sell it. I am trying to keep the people of this forum happily driving their cars and trucks not pushing them.
"The color is a sign of carbon which causes the discoloration. The detergent action of any good oil will cause an oil to discolor."
True as well as contaminates and particles
"I never said it was because it was dirty"
False
"cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine"
Here is your own quote again(this = DIRTY)You continue to contradict yourself
"Regardless of color, the oil is still doing it's job by preventing any further deposits from occuring as well as preventing metal wear due to friction. When a good oil like Amsoil cleans the engine the larger deposits travel into the filter and are removed from circulation."
True as this is done by most all oils
"The discoloration remains."
Because there is still contaminates, although there extra tiny they are still there
"Your correct that most oils have detergents in them. I never implied that Amsoil is the only one. Amsoil does have a robust package off additives though."
True
"They won't have deposits thanks to Amsoil's additives but the oil will still darken due to carbon which is a byproduct of combustion."
False No filter is 100% therefore it cannot remove all deposits
"The carbon particulates are too small to be filtered by any oil filter (except maybe a bypass set-up). They are carried in suspension in the oil where they are harmless. I base this on oil analysis results."
True & False The carbon IS TOO SMALL NO EXCEPTIONS(bypass helps)
If it's in the oil it IS HARMFUL because it is still being rubbed and compressed by bearings and other engine parts
"I said deposits like sludge and varnish not "darker oil". "Darker oil" is a term that you used as a "catch all" to describe all bad things in oil. Carbon suspended in Amsoil does not cause sludge and varnish."
True (AKA DARKER OIL) was my addition to define it And I never claimed that it causes sludge and varnish
"Agreed on all of the deposits, except the carbon soot issue. The carbon does not cause the engine to be restricted nor does it prevent the oil from lubricating which is the most important part. We never said Amsoil is a "cure-all" or super oil. Amsoil will discolor like any other oil. This is also dependent on how dirty the engine is to begin with. When I changed my oil filter at six months, my oil did become clearer because of the new filter and because of the new additives. Did it concern me that my oil was dark before I changed my filter? Absolutely not!"
True & False Carbon is the least of your worries in the oil, but the impression I, and many others, got reading the claims is that it was being touted as a cure all/super oil
"We never said anything about leaving soot or carbon, we were referring to other byproducts of poorly made petroleum oils."
True Synthetics of all brands are far superior to conventional oils
"That wasn't directed at you. I was trying to prove a point that you can safely put Amsoil in older engines that have been well maintained."
True With that part in quotations it seemed to be directed. I'm apologize for the misunderstanding.
Amsoil IS safe in all engines in good condition
"The flaps job is for oil pressure. If the pressure is too high because the filter is clogged with debris, it opens up. This means that the oil stops being filtered. No filtration is a bad thing . Amsoil prevents this from happening by 1st. recommending an engine flush for older or higher mileage engines, and 2nd requiring a filter change at 6 months or 12,500 miles (whichever comes first)."
False If this were true then why have I seen good quality filters explode with too much pressure.
"So, your the lubrication engineer out to save the world from Amsoil's evil plan to destroy engines with excessive wear and "dirty oil" because they recommend 1 year or 25,000 mile oil change intervals? Give me a break! 30 years in business with no engine failures is evidence that Amsoil works just fine."
False I have only known one person EVER to use Amsoil(whom changed the oil every 3,000 miles), whose to say there hasn't been, you two thats it. And as I have, and will continue, with a world full of ASE certified mechanics saying your passing bad information. If the product was that good everyone would be using it, after all they've been in business for over 30 years.
"I don't have the bypass system on my Dakota yet but, it is a planned addition because it filters the oil ten times better than any regular oil filter which means a few things:"
True The more filters the better in any and all aplications
"Less oil changes (proven with oil analysis results)
Less engine wear (proven with oil analysis results)"
Are these Amsoils tests or independent test?
"The color is a sign of carbon which causes the discoloration. The detergent action of any good oil will cause an oil to discolor."
True as well as contaminates and particles
"I never said it was because it was dirty"
False
"cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine"
Here is your own quote again(this = DIRTY)You continue to contradict yourself
"Regardless of color, the oil is still doing it's job by preventing any further deposits from occuring as well as preventing metal wear due to friction. When a good oil like Amsoil cleans the engine the larger deposits travel into the filter and are removed from circulation."
True as this is done by most all oils
"The discoloration remains."
Because there is still contaminates, although there extra tiny they are still there
"Your correct that most oils have detergents in them. I never implied that Amsoil is the only one. Amsoil does have a robust package off additives though."
True
"They won't have deposits thanks to Amsoil's additives but the oil will still darken due to carbon which is a byproduct of combustion."
False No filter is 100% therefore it cannot remove all deposits
"The carbon particulates are too small to be filtered by any oil filter (except maybe a bypass set-up). They are carried in suspension in the oil where they are harmless. I base this on oil analysis results."
True & False The carbon IS TOO SMALL NO EXCEPTIONS(bypass helps)
If it's in the oil it IS HARMFUL because it is still being rubbed and compressed by bearings and other engine parts
"I said deposits like sludge and varnish not "darker oil". "Darker oil" is a term that you used as a "catch all" to describe all bad things in oil. Carbon suspended in Amsoil does not cause sludge and varnish."
True (AKA DARKER OIL) was my addition to define it And I never claimed that it causes sludge and varnish
"Agreed on all of the deposits, except the carbon soot issue. The carbon does not cause the engine to be restricted nor does it prevent the oil from lubricating which is the most important part. We never said Amsoil is a "cure-all" or super oil. Amsoil will discolor like any other oil. This is also dependent on how dirty the engine is to begin with. When I changed my oil filter at six months, my oil did become clearer because of the new filter and because of the new additives. Did it concern me that my oil was dark before I changed my filter? Absolutely not!"
True & False Carbon is the least of your worries in the oil, but the impression I, and many others, got reading the claims is that it was being touted as a cure all/super oil
"We never said anything about leaving soot or carbon, we were referring to other byproducts of poorly made petroleum oils."
True Synthetics of all brands are far superior to conventional oils
"That wasn't directed at you. I was trying to prove a point that you can safely put Amsoil in older engines that have been well maintained."
True With that part in quotations it seemed to be directed. I'm apologize for the misunderstanding.
Amsoil IS safe in all engines in good condition
"The flaps job is for oil pressure. If the pressure is too high because the filter is clogged with debris, it opens up. This means that the oil stops being filtered. No filtration is a bad thing . Amsoil prevents this from happening by 1st. recommending an engine flush for older or higher mileage engines, and 2nd requiring a filter change at 6 months or 12,500 miles (whichever comes first)."
False If this were true then why have I seen good quality filters explode with too much pressure.
"So, your the lubrication engineer out to save the world from Amsoil's evil plan to destroy engines with excessive wear and "dirty oil" because they recommend 1 year or 25,000 mile oil change intervals? Give me a break! 30 years in business with no engine failures is evidence that Amsoil works just fine."
False I have only known one person EVER to use Amsoil(whom changed the oil every 3,000 miles), whose to say there hasn't been, you two thats it. And as I have, and will continue, with a world full of ASE certified mechanics saying your passing bad information. If the product was that good everyone would be using it, after all they've been in business for over 30 years.
"I don't have the bypass system on my Dakota yet but, it is a planned addition because it filters the oil ten times better than any regular oil filter which means a few things:"
True The more filters the better in any and all aplications
"Less oil changes (proven with oil analysis results)
Less engine wear (proven with oil analysis results)"
Are these Amsoils tests or independent test?
Professional
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
Originally Posted by 71ROADRUNNER
No, I just don't like people like you trying so hard to sell something, that you will give bad information to sell it. I am trying to keep the people of this forum happily driving their cars and trucks not pushing them.
"The color is a sign of carbon which causes the discoloration. The detergent action of any good oil will cause an oil to discolor."
True as well as contaminates and particles
"I never said it was because it was dirty"
False
"cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine"
Here is your own quote again(this = DIRTY)You continue to contradict yourself
"Regardless of color, the oil is still doing it's job by preventing any further deposits from occuring as well as preventing metal wear due to friction. When a good oil like Amsoil cleans the engine the larger deposits travel into the filter and are removed from circulation."
True as this is done by most all oils </P>
<U>Most premium oils</U>
"The discoloration remains."
Because there is still contaminates, although there extra tiny they are still there </P>
But they aren't causing engine wear.
"Your correct that most oils have detergents in them. I never implied that Amsoil is the only one. Amsoil does have a robust package off additives though."
True
"They won't have deposits thanks to Amsoil's additives but the oil will still darken due to carbon which is a byproduct of combustion."
False No filter is 100% therefore it cannot remove all deposits </P>
<U>Agreed, I was referring to deposits of varnish and sludgeattached tothe engine.
</U>
"The carbon particulates are too small to be filtered by any oil filter (except maybe a bypass set-up). They are carried in suspension in the oil where they are harmless. I base this on oil analysis results."
True & False The carbon IS TOO SMALL NO EXCEPTIONS(bypass helps)
If it's in the oil it IS HARMFUL because it is still being rubbed and compressed by bearings and other engine parts </P>
<U>But it does not show up as metal wear in oil analysis results (non Amsoil owned labs BTW</U>)
"I said deposits like sludge and varnish not "darker oil". "Darker oil" is a term that you used as a "catch all" to describe all bad things in oil. Carbon suspended in Amsoil does not cause sludge and varnish."
True (AKA DARKER OIL) was my addition to define it And I never claimed that it causes sludge and varnish
"Agreed on all of the deposits, except the carbon soot issue. The carbon does not cause the engine to be restricted nor does it prevent the oil from lubricating which is the most important part. We never said Amsoil is a "cure-all" or super oil. Amsoil will discolor like any other oil. This is also dependent on how dirty the engine is to begin with. When I changed my oil filter at six months, my oil did become clearer because of the new filter and because of the new additives. Did it concern me that my oil was dark before I changed my filter? Absolutely not!"
True & False Carbon is the least of your worries in the oil, but the impression I, and many others, got reading the claims is that it was being touted as a cure all/super oil </P>
<U>This was not of my doing nor my personal intention.</U>
"We never said anything about leaving soot or carbon, we were referring to other byproducts of poorly made petroleum oils."
True Synthetics of all brands are far superior to conventional oils </P>
<U>Again 100% agreed</U></P><U>
</U>"That wasn't directed at you. I was trying to prove a point that you can safely put Amsoil in older engines that have been well maintained."
True With that part in quotations it seemed to be directed. I'm apologize for the misunderstanding.
Amsoil IS safe in all engines in good condition </P>
<U>I'm glad we agree</U></P><U></U>
"The flaps job is for oil pressure. If the pressure is too high because the filter is clogged with debris, it opens up. This means that the oil stops being filtered. No filtration is a bad thing . Amsoil prevents this from happening by 1st. recommending an engine flush for older or higher mileage engines, and 2nd requiring a filter change at 6 months or 12,500 miles (whichever comes first)."
False If this were true then why have I seen good quality filters explode with too much pressure. </P>
<U>Bad Valves perhaps?</U>
"So, your the lubrication engineer out to save the world from Amsoil's evil plan to destroy engines with excessive wear and "dirty oil" because they recommend 1 year or 25,000 mile oil change intervals? Give me a break! 30 years in business with no engine failures is evidence that Amsoil works just fine."
False I have only known one person EVER to use Amsoil(whom changed the oil every 3,000 miles), whose to say there hasn't been, you two thats it. And as I have, and will continue, with a world full of ASE certified mechanics saying your passing bad information. If the product was that good everyone would be using it, after all they've been in business for over 30 years. </P>
<U>Their problem is they don't advertise and Jiffy Lube and other quick-lubecompanieshave a billion dollar ad campaign that floods the tv and airwaves. This is one reason why amsoil isn't more widely known about.
</U>
"I don't have the bypass system on my Dakota yet but, it is a planned addition because it filters the oil ten times better than any regular oil filter which means a few things:"
True The more filters the better in any and all aplications
"Less oil changes (proven with oil analysis results)
Less engine wear (proven with oil analysis results)"
Are these Amsoils tests or independent test?
</P>
<U>Non Amsoil tests, the diesel analysis was done by a private lab.
</U>
"The color is a sign of carbon which causes the discoloration. The detergent action of any good oil will cause an oil to discolor."
True as well as contaminates and particles
"I never said it was because it was dirty"
False
"cleaning deposits, soot and other particles that have been deposited throughout the engine"
Here is your own quote again(this = DIRTY)You continue to contradict yourself
"Regardless of color, the oil is still doing it's job by preventing any further deposits from occuring as well as preventing metal wear due to friction. When a good oil like Amsoil cleans the engine the larger deposits travel into the filter and are removed from circulation."
True as this is done by most all oils </P>
<U>Most premium oils</U>
"The discoloration remains."
Because there is still contaminates, although there extra tiny they are still there </P>
But they aren't causing engine wear.
"Your correct that most oils have detergents in them. I never implied that Amsoil is the only one. Amsoil does have a robust package off additives though."
True
"They won't have deposits thanks to Amsoil's additives but the oil will still darken due to carbon which is a byproduct of combustion."
False No filter is 100% therefore it cannot remove all deposits </P>
<U>Agreed, I was referring to deposits of varnish and sludgeattached tothe engine.
</U>
"The carbon particulates are too small to be filtered by any oil filter (except maybe a bypass set-up). They are carried in suspension in the oil where they are harmless. I base this on oil analysis results."
True & False The carbon IS TOO SMALL NO EXCEPTIONS(bypass helps)
If it's in the oil it IS HARMFUL because it is still being rubbed and compressed by bearings and other engine parts </P>
<U>But it does not show up as metal wear in oil analysis results (non Amsoil owned labs BTW</U>)
"I said deposits like sludge and varnish not "darker oil". "Darker oil" is a term that you used as a "catch all" to describe all bad things in oil. Carbon suspended in Amsoil does not cause sludge and varnish."
True (AKA DARKER OIL) was my addition to define it And I never claimed that it causes sludge and varnish
"Agreed on all of the deposits, except the carbon soot issue. The carbon does not cause the engine to be restricted nor does it prevent the oil from lubricating which is the most important part. We never said Amsoil is a "cure-all" or super oil. Amsoil will discolor like any other oil. This is also dependent on how dirty the engine is to begin with. When I changed my oil filter at six months, my oil did become clearer because of the new filter and because of the new additives. Did it concern me that my oil was dark before I changed my filter? Absolutely not!"
True & False Carbon is the least of your worries in the oil, but the impression I, and many others, got reading the claims is that it was being touted as a cure all/super oil </P>
<U>This was not of my doing nor my personal intention.</U>
"We never said anything about leaving soot or carbon, we were referring to other byproducts of poorly made petroleum oils."
True Synthetics of all brands are far superior to conventional oils </P>
<U>Again 100% agreed</U></P><U>
</U>"That wasn't directed at you. I was trying to prove a point that you can safely put Amsoil in older engines that have been well maintained."
True With that part in quotations it seemed to be directed. I'm apologize for the misunderstanding.
Amsoil IS safe in all engines in good condition </P>
<U>I'm glad we agree</U></P><U></U>
"The flaps job is for oil pressure. If the pressure is too high because the filter is clogged with debris, it opens up. This means that the oil stops being filtered. No filtration is a bad thing . Amsoil prevents this from happening by 1st. recommending an engine flush for older or higher mileage engines, and 2nd requiring a filter change at 6 months or 12,500 miles (whichever comes first)."
False If this were true then why have I seen good quality filters explode with too much pressure. </P>
<U>Bad Valves perhaps?</U>
"So, your the lubrication engineer out to save the world from Amsoil's evil plan to destroy engines with excessive wear and "dirty oil" because they recommend 1 year or 25,000 mile oil change intervals? Give me a break! 30 years in business with no engine failures is evidence that Amsoil works just fine."
False I have only known one person EVER to use Amsoil(whom changed the oil every 3,000 miles), whose to say there hasn't been, you two thats it. And as I have, and will continue, with a world full of ASE certified mechanics saying your passing bad information. If the product was that good everyone would be using it, after all they've been in business for over 30 years. </P>
<U>Their problem is they don't advertise and Jiffy Lube and other quick-lubecompanieshave a billion dollar ad campaign that floods the tv and airwaves. This is one reason why amsoil isn't more widely known about.
</U>
"I don't have the bypass system on my Dakota yet but, it is a planned addition because it filters the oil ten times better than any regular oil filter which means a few things:"
True The more filters the better in any and all aplications
"Less oil changes (proven with oil analysis results)
Less engine wear (proven with oil analysis results)"
Are these Amsoils tests or independent test?
</P>
<U>Non Amsoil tests, the diesel analysis was done by a private lab.
</U>
Legend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,543
Likes: 2
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
"Their problem is they don't advertise and Jiffy Lube and other quick-lube companies have a billion dollar ad campaign that floods the tv and airwaves. This is one reason why amsoil isn't more widely known about."
I cannot see how though, 30 years is a very long time for "word of mouth" to travel, especially if the product is as good as claimed. I am glad to see that we have come to some sort of understanding. As I have all but once stated, I have used it without any problems and do not claim it to be a bad oil. I, and the Amsoil salesman I bought the car from, do not believe their 25,000+ mile change interval.
I cannot see how though, 30 years is a very long time for "word of mouth" to travel, especially if the product is as good as claimed. I am glad to see that we have come to some sort of understanding. As I have all but once stated, I have used it without any problems and do not claim it to be a bad oil. I, and the Amsoil salesman I bought the car from, do not believe their 25,000+ mile change interval.
Professional
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: United States
Amsoil Questions and answ
Here is more info about Amsoil's oil filters:</P>
In the case of Amsoil filters, I understand the media is different in that they use a synthetic type. The Amsoil filters are rated at 98% effective at 20 microns and about 65% at 10 microns. </P>
</P>
Here is some info regarding oil pressure valves and their effects on oil filters.</P>
The oil pump has a pressure relief device built into it. Notice that an engine idles at about 40 pounds or so. When you rev the engine the pressure climbs to about 60 pounds. It will be 60 pounds at 2000 rpm and it will be 60 at 6000 rpm. We learned the hard way what the pressure will be if the relief device doesn't open. Some filters blew apart at 3000 pounds while others didn't blow until 5000 rpm. We put a 0 - 1000 pressure guage on the system and found the engine idled at about 40 pounds but steadilly climbed as the engine rpm was increased. When the guage reached 400 pounds that filter blew. Point is that the oil pump pressure regulator will only allow the pressure to run at it's set pressure. </P>
</P>
To end the debate, If you want to try Amsoil synthetic oil, you may change it at any interval that you feel comfortable: 3000 miles, 5000 miles or whenever (provided it is an interval within Amsoil's recommendation . Example: don't change the 1 year or 25,000 mile oil at 2 years and don't change the xl7500 oil at intervals longer than 7500 miles.</P>
Amsoil dealers actually make less money by recommending 1 year or 25,000 miles oil changes. If you like to support your local Amsoil dealer, change your oilas often as you see fit . <IMG src=smileys/smiley4.gif border="0"></P>
