how much downforce dose spoiler provide
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Joined: May 2005
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RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
but the wing is so small there probably is no way its gonna help you at higher speeds, they didnt maky it that high for the supra look now did they, they tested it provin it built it and use if for a reason besides what other kinda wing will show off our curves as well? Change it if you want but dont lose control at 12o mph.... that could suck!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 710
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From: United States
RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
As I recall, the story is that the marketing guys insisted on a wing, so the team said, fine, if we GOTTA have a wing, it'll work at least.
And for the record, while an upward angled will produce down force from the airflow acting on it, like PHR said, an upside down wing shape (flat on top, curved on bottom) will produce "negative lift" also.
I recommend howstuffworks.com for some good animations on lift.
And for the record, while an upward angled will produce down force from the airflow acting on it, like PHR said, an upside down wing shape (flat on top, curved on bottom) will produce "negative lift" also.
I recommend howstuffworks.com for some good animations on lift.
Captain
Joined: Mar 2004
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RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
ORIGINAL: posthondaremoval
Definitely has an effect. I have done numerous high speed runs, and surprisingly, at 135 in long slow turns the car is stuck like glue. It is stable at 150+
and the spoiler's vertical strakes do as much to keep the car stable as the inverted wing helps to keep it glued to the ground.
Here is a link to a thread where I broke it down. A number of people who are pretty knowledgable chimed in as well:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/show...=wing+inverted
In my post I said th following:
Guys, science says the wing does create downforce. Read the following blurb about how an airplane wing creates lift. Then look at your wing. It is shaped like an upside down airplane wing. The fact that the upper surface on our wing is flatter and the bottom is curved indicates that it will create a low pressure zone on the bottom, thus creating downforce. I think it is hard to refute these facts.:
Lift is the aerodynamic force that counteracts gravity and holds an airplane in the air. Most of the lift required by an airplane is created by its wings, but a certain portion is also generated by other parts of the aircraft, such as the fuselage. But what actually causes the lift to be created?
First, understand that air is a fluid, just like water, and that all fluids adhere to the same physical and mathematical principles. Next, realize that lift can only be generated when a fluid is in motion. For example, a wing must be passing through the air or the air must be moving around a stationary wing, one or the other. (The way it usually happens is that the wing is doing most of the moving, although the air may be moving too, at the same time.)
Most airplane wings have a special, basic shape as viewed edge-on: their upper surfaces are curved and their lower surfaces are flatter. This shape is what works with the fluid motion of the air to create lift. As air moves around a wing, some goes over the top and some goes underneath. The air that goes over the curved upper surface undergoes two important changes: it is reduced in pressure (by the centrifugal force of flowing across the curved surface) and it is accelerated downward (as it leaves the trailing edge of the wing). The wing is forced into the region of reduced air pressure above the upper surface of the wing by the higher air pressure beneath the wing. Also, the downward acceleration of the air (downwash) at the trailing edge forces the wing upward.
^^^^^I think that this explains pretty well, "How" the wing works.
Chrysler has tested it to produce around 100 lbs of downforce over 120.
Definitely has an effect. I have done numerous high speed runs, and surprisingly, at 135 in long slow turns the car is stuck like glue. It is stable at 150+
and the spoiler's vertical strakes do as much to keep the car stable as the inverted wing helps to keep it glued to the ground. Here is a link to a thread where I broke it down. A number of people who are pretty knowledgable chimed in as well:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/show...=wing+inverted
In my post I said th following:
Guys, science says the wing does create downforce. Read the following blurb about how an airplane wing creates lift. Then look at your wing. It is shaped like an upside down airplane wing. The fact that the upper surface on our wing is flatter and the bottom is curved indicates that it will create a low pressure zone on the bottom, thus creating downforce. I think it is hard to refute these facts.:
Lift is the aerodynamic force that counteracts gravity and holds an airplane in the air. Most of the lift required by an airplane is created by its wings, but a certain portion is also generated by other parts of the aircraft, such as the fuselage. But what actually causes the lift to be created?
First, understand that air is a fluid, just like water, and that all fluids adhere to the same physical and mathematical principles. Next, realize that lift can only be generated when a fluid is in motion. For example, a wing must be passing through the air or the air must be moving around a stationary wing, one or the other. (The way it usually happens is that the wing is doing most of the moving, although the air may be moving too, at the same time.)
Most airplane wings have a special, basic shape as viewed edge-on: their upper surfaces are curved and their lower surfaces are flatter. This shape is what works with the fluid motion of the air to create lift. As air moves around a wing, some goes over the top and some goes underneath. The air that goes over the curved upper surface undergoes two important changes: it is reduced in pressure (by the centrifugal force of flowing across the curved surface) and it is accelerated downward (as it leaves the trailing edge of the wing). The wing is forced into the region of reduced air pressure above the upper surface of the wing by the higher air pressure beneath the wing. Also, the downward acceleration of the air (downwash) at the trailing edge forces the wing upward.
^^^^^I think that this explains pretty well, "How" the wing works.
Chrysler has tested it to produce around 100 lbs of downforce over 120.
the pricipal states that the fluid flowing over the curved surface of an airfoil will travel faster than the fluid flowing over the flat surface, in order to rejoin at the same point at the same time at the trailing edge. this creates a low-pressure area above the faster moving fluid, and the rest is as you said. there are two schools of thought currently as to what the force is that actually creates the primary lift on a wing- some think it is the high pressure area under the wing pushing up, some think the low pressure area over the wing pulling up. i happen to think it's both- i think a lot of guys are going that direction (so i guess that makes three schools, actually).
airplanes actually use the inverted wing- the horizontal stabilizer on the tail is an inverted airfoil- this keeps downforce on the rear of the plane to help keep the nose up (to put it simply), so yes, it definitely works.
so, the question is, will you notice a difference at speed? well, i was going to take mine off until i went canyon carving w/a bmw k1200 (a bike)we were smashing curves at about 140 the whole way up, and my car felt glued to the ground the entire time- i never once got loose in the rear- since then i've decided i'd better keep my spoiler, b/c i figure if it works don't f... with it.
wow- this thread is more info than you ever wanted to know about wings, eh? i love it!
Record Breaker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,740
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From: Phila, PA
RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
ORIGINAL: glhs837
As I recall, the story is that the marketing guys insisted on a wing, so the team said, fine, if we GOTTA have a wing, it'll work at least.
And for the record, while an upward angled will produce down force from the airflow acting on it, like PHR said, an upside down wing shape (flat on top, curved on bottom) will produce "negative lift" also.
I recommend howstuffworks.com for some good animations on lift.
As I recall, the story is that the marketing guys insisted on a wing, so the team said, fine, if we GOTTA have a wing, it'll work at least.
And for the record, while an upward angled will produce down force from the airflow acting on it, like PHR said, an upside down wing shape (flat on top, curved on bottom) will produce "negative lift" also.
I recommend howstuffworks.com for some good animations on lift.
welcome back.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
From: United States
RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
In relation to your talk of laminar flow, Barney (who'd a thunk an ordnanceman talking laminar flow, eh?) I think that was one reason for the height of the wing, was to be in the airflow after it departed the rear of the body.
) I think that was one reason for the height of the wing, was to be in the airflow after it departed the rear of the body.
Record Breaker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,740
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From: Phila, PA
RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
Now, would a vortex generator coupled with an sxt wing have a similar effect to the srt wing?
Also, I wonder if Just adding a vortex generator as is would help or hurt, since the wing is up in the air a bit to begin with.
I know - a rear diffuser will do all that and more, with it's undermounted tunnels, but I was just thinking. (I need a wind tunnel, now)
Also, I wonder if Just adding a vortex generator as is would help or hurt, since the wing is up in the air a bit to begin with.
I know - a rear diffuser will do all that and more, with it's undermounted tunnels, but I was just thinking. (I need a wind tunnel, now)
Captain
Joined: Mar 2004
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RE: how much downforce dose spoiler provide
ORIGINAL: glhs837
In relation to your talk of laminar flow, Barney (who'd a thunk an ordnanceman talking laminar flow, eh?) I think that was one reason for the height of the wing, was to be in the airflow after it departed the rear of the body.
In relation to your talk of laminar flow, Barney (who'd a thunk an ordnanceman talking laminar flow, eh?
) I think that was one reason for the height of the wing, was to be in the airflow after it departed the rear of the body. gotta design bombs to move through the air too, right? wait, is it ordinance guys who don't like to be called bomb guys? i always forget...