'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

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  #11  
Old 01-23-2006, 06:55 PM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future


ORIGINAL: 2coff

Know whats sad, on average the CEO's of these companies make 10% of the company profits, but when things go wrong it's they poor guy on the assembly line barely feeding his family who gets fired. Welcome to corparate America, it's pretty sickening.
You show me one line worker for teh Big 3 that is "barely feeding his family". Theses are people who make 50K working 40 hours a week....some are over 100K with overtime. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but stop making it sound like the line workers are some poor shlubs who are defaulting on mortgages. I personally know of several line workers who live in houses that cost upwards of 600K....and I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but 10% of profits go to CEO's? I think you are seriously exaggerating that number.

Danny
 
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future


ORIGINAL: BadStratRT

those guys are all union workers, so they do receive some money to keep them afloat when laid off...
Yep, from what I read the get paid until a new contract is made in 2007

"Under the company’s existing contract with the United Auto Workers, workers at the idled plants will continue to get most of their pay and benefits until a new contract is negotiated next year. However, they may not make what they earn today because they won’t be eligible for overtime"
Got this from the MSNBC news

Now, this irratates me. The part about OT. Noone should ever plan their finances on OT. If they do, they are morons. That is howcome people get so far into debt then expect others to bail them out. So even stating they won't get OT like it is a bad thing is crap.
 
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Old 01-23-2006, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

ORIGINAL: 2coff

Know whats sad, on average the CEO's of these companies make 10% of the company profits, but when things go wrong it's they poor guy on the assembly line barely feeding his family who gets fired. Welcome to corparate America, it's pretty sickening.

wow you never seem to fail to amaze me. you just say one stupid *** thing after another with absolutely no idea what you are talking about. it is quite entertaining actually.

you should move to Iraq and join a terrorist group, because everything i ever hear from you is anti America, anti government, or anti American workers. this case falls under anti American workers. its a shame these people have to lose there job, but if they got an education they wouldn't of been in that position in the first place. they created there own problems. granted it isn't the line workers fault ford cant engineer worth a ****, but that is how things are. when there is no profits, no one gets anything extra. whats 10% of 0? now when there is no profits and they lost money, where would you make it up for the next year. the CEO's who must be replaced or the workers at factories who are overpaid and operate double plants. the wixom plant makes Lincoln town cars and LS's which even with the plant closed will continue to be produced. whats the point of keeping that plant open to pay the over priced workers when they are making vehicles that are being made elsewhere anyways.

now when you are cutting down the CEO's who actually make the company work and operate, you are being anti American workers. those people matter alot, and they are American workers. stop trashing them because you are to much of a failure at life to become one.

as much as i would like to blame fords ****ty models, the real problem is the UAW. between health care and the overpriced workers they are actually running those workers jobs into the ground.
 
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

The government won't let Ford go under, they'll bail them out like they did DCX back in the Lee Iacocca days.....

Dusty
 
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

ORIGINAL: dustyloins

The government won't let Ford go under, they'll bail them out like they did DCX back in the Lee Iacocca days.....

Dusty

your right they will, and GM too.

2coff, I'm sorry that our government wants to save American jobs. this is our horrible government trying to save the American jobs you criticize plus some other peoples job.
 
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

Some food for thought...

Source: Corp! Magazine - March 2004, Michigan Edition
Article: Time to Change Executive Compensation

Are American Automakers losing market share because of the way they compensate the executives? As the old adage goes, "Tell me how you’re going to measure me, and I'll show you how I'm going to perform."

American Executives always focused on a lot on quarterly earning, but it became an obsession in the 1990s. That's because the board of directors in Detroit (and Corporate America) decided to change how they reward executives. They placed more emphasis on creating shareholder value, dangling out the prospects of huge financial rewards of they hit big numbers.

It took about a nano-second for these executives to get the message. They snapped to, saluted and got to work.

"You want us to cut the cost of capital? No problem! Quick, let's outsource as much as we can, which is the fastest way we can transfer capital costs from our books onto our suppliers."

"You want us to immediately boost earnings? Easy Breezy. We'll cut costs ruthlessly. We'll squeeze our suppliers until they cough up every red cent. Then we'll box out engineers into budgets that will prevent them from spending money on modern powertrain technologies, or on high quality materials for the interiors on our cars and trucks."

Meanwhile, executives at Toyota, Honda, and BMW were never paid rock-star wages. Sure, they have tight financial controls, but their primary focus was never shareholder value.

So which approach do you think is producing greater shareholder value? Toyota's market capitalization is worth more than General Motors, Ford, and Daimler Chrysler combined!

The message is clear. It's time for Detroit (and Corporate America) to change how it compensates its executives.

First, measure their performance against what really matters. How about quality?

Can you imagine what would happen to the Big Three vehicle quality if Rick Wagoner, Nick Scheele and Dieter Zetche woke up every morning knowing the only way they could make millions of dollars in bonuses would be if the quality of their vehicles shot up?

They'll argue they already do that. But the metric they use is what they call Initial Quality, and that only measures how cars perform in the first 90 days of ownership.

Instead, let's take a long-term look at quality, and include related issues like residual values and sales incentives.

How about productivity? How much more attention would management devote to making their companies more efficient if their bonuses were tied to it? And market share?

The idea here is to get management focused on the metrics they can control; the metrics that will directly improve the company and its products. Let's face it. When the stock market tanks, all that shareholder value effort is a waste of time.

Here are some suggested points to pay management a bonus: Quality, productivity, market share, profits and shareholder value. In that order.

Notice that I didn't get rid of shareholder value. Creating shareholder value is important. But it should not be the Number One criteria by which management is measured.

The old saying holds true. Tell management how you're going to measure them, then sit back and watch them do what you want. I guess I could add something here about operant conditioning, B.F. Skinner, rats in a maze, and rewards of cheese. But people may object to the analogy.

Overall, chief executives compensation has been soaring in recent years. Richard Grasso, the former head of the New York Stock Exchange, was ousted recently when it was revealed that his annual package salary plus bonuses had totaled more than $100 million dollars. An anomaly? Certainly, but eight figure annual compensation is becoming more frequent.

An historical measure of the appropriateness of executive pat has long been the ratio between the lowest worker’s salary and that of the chief executives. Almost a century ago, J.P. Morgan, one of America’s wealthiest men, proposed that executives earn no more than 20 times the pay of low level workers. How times change: A recent study revealed that the chiefs at big domestic companies earned 531 times what their hourly employees did, on average! And as you can see from the table below, Americans lead the world when it comes to executive pay as a multiple of employee average:

* United States: 531
* Brazil: 57
* Mexico: 45
* Britain: 25
* Canada: 21
* France: 16
* Germany: 11
* Japan:10


American CEO pay grew while profits and stocks declined. Median pay went up 6%, while Corporate profits dropped 4%, and share prices dropped 23.4%.
Another article...
USA today/money
snippet from article.
At 60 of the worst-performing companies in that group, which lost $769 billion in market value over the past five years, the aggregate pay for the top five executives of those 60 companies over the same period was $12 billion.
...the companies are losing money, but the execs are still getting paid...quite well.
 
  #17  
Old 01-24-2006, 02:58 AM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

And that gentlemen is the main problem.^ The other problem is poor vehicle design. If nobody wants it, no one will buy it. The bonus system for management at the plant level is vehicles produced per shift. Not quality vehicles, just vehicles. That is why management pushes garbage off the line to get their magic number for the shift. Who cares if its a pos coming off the line. One of the most commonly heard lines is "ship it, its a dealer problem now." How sad. Yet the line worker gets blamed for the demise of the company. If ford, gm, dc want to know who is to blame for their current debacle they just need to look in that corporate mirror.

You show me one line worker for teh Big 3 that is "barely feeding his family". Theses are people who make 50K working 40 hours a week....some are over 100K with overtime. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but stop making it sound like the line workers are some poor shlubs who are defaulting on mortgages. I personally know of several line workers who live in houses that cost upwards of 600K....and I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but 10% of profits go to CEO's? I think you are seriously exaggerating that number.

Right a guy making 50k a year is living in a 600k house. Please. I can barley afford my house with my "50k" a year working for Chrysler. And my wife works as well. There is no way I could afford my house and my cars without her working. SO what does 50k buy you... About a 150k house and maybe a 15k car. Wow the extravagance.




now when you are cutting down the CEO's who actually make the company work and operate, you are being anti American workers. those people matter alot, and they are American workers. stop trashing them because you are to much of a failure at life to become one.

as much as i would like to blame fords ****ty models, the real problem is the UAW. between health care and the overpriced workers they are actually running those workers jobs into the ground.

Nick as usual your showing your stupidity here. I would really like to see you do a line job. then see how "overpaid" we are. Also why is it that the transplants(honda, nissan, toyota) can pay their "overpriced workers" the same, and sometimes even better than the big three and make a very hefty profit. Your argument holds no ground. They pay the same, and make a ton of money doing it, but the big three's problem is the UAW. Okay. Check your facts before you make yourself look foolish.

P.S. Its a two way street, without us they(ceo's) have no job as well. So it goes both ways.


Joe
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:11 AM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

(and nicko works a union job)
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:30 AM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

ORIGINAL: jgralka

SO what does 50k buy you... About a 150k house and maybe a 15k car. Wow the extravagance.
Hmmm... My good friend makes like 20k-30k and has a 15k car and 25k car and a 120k house and his wife doesn't work... I wonder how he does that...
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:33 AM
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Default RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future

does he have kids?

and either way...one word.."Credit".

i drive a 25K car, and i dont have a job
 


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