Ok now I got your attention. I'm new here but been around the horn many times.
Where are all the diesel guys?? no smoke on demand?? haha

anyway...over the years there has been some interest in putting 426 hemi heads on a 440 block. No need to tell me this doesn't work. Worked in a race car shop in the hemi heyday.

There is or was a company called Stage V that made special aluminum heads that would fit the 440 block. These were noted by the drain down lines at the ends of the heads that went into the oil pan. I saw one of these conversions at Union Grove Wis about 2 years ago in a rear eng dragster for bracket racing. Very nice.

Is there any other place making this conversion. I sure haven't seen or heard anything. It was pretty spendy around $4000 as I recall but within high end aluminum heads.

Ayn info???

bentwings

 

first off, stage V is very popular with people who want the look of a hemi, but not the performance. i know a guy who has like 5 "Factory hemi cars", ALL stage v conversions are Junk. I know some joker who runs in the hemi SS class with a knock off hemi dart, and he has had more engine problems, only running in the low 11s, than anyone that i have ever seen because that setup is simply not made to be pushed..stage v is no more of a reliable performance mod than new valve covers.

 

That's not good news at all. Crap I built a 440 6 pack for a guy back when they were still on the show room that ran 11's with 9" tires of the day.
I only saw the one at the Grove run 3 times and I think he ran a 7.50 or 7.60. I ran 7.0 with an all steel hemi in our alcohol FC back in the mid 70's and it was a lot heavier than this dragster was.

What is the general problem??? seats fall out?? gaskets leaking?? I'm sure the block isn't going to stand up to 30+ pounds of boost and 8500 rpm but for a street rod I guess I would like to see it live with 5-6 pounds at least.

As expensive as they are I think a guy could buy some used race car stuff that would be a lot better. I don't need a 500 inch motor.

I guess it was just wishfull thinking.
thanks

 

i honestly dont recall what this particular guy always has problems with, but i know that he has a small block dart in the 10s, so the problem isnt that hes a moron, i mean, he is a moron, but thats not why his stage v's keep blowing up. i am almost positive that it is a top end issue though. i will try to find out, and post and let you know what i find out.

 

I see a few of them on alcohol rails and even a few Nitro cars. I'm not sure why they don't work too well on high compression gasoline engines, maybe the ports are too big and there's no velocity to get a good vacuum signal??
Good to meet you and welcome. It's good to know someone into the 60's musclecar era that worked in a shop, I'm that kid that you saw in the shop cleaning parts in the oil pan full of gasoline back then!LOL
Probably while you guys were smoking! Haha!

 

i talked to someone who is familiar with the fake hemis..the guy that we know who is trying to run them is having constant valve train problems.

 

My guess is that if there is valve train problems it is from lack of experience or listening to the cam mfg regarding proper valve train parts.
Back in the late 60's and thru the 70's the top fuel and alcohol hemi's used basically stock steel heads. For the moment discount the few billit aluminum heads that Veney and some of the others made and the stock Mopar aluminum heads. A FC or alcohol FC typically ran 4.10 or maybe a 3.90 gear. A 220-230 run was pretty standard in the early 70's for fuel. Nobody ran a tach or computer so what exactly the rpm was is a bit of a guess. Calculating it is well over 8500 as I'm sure there was 5% slip from the cluch and tires. Even with our Alcohol FC we left tracks thru the lights. 190+. Don't forget the tires didn't grow nearly as much as they do now. The point here is that the valve train was important. The springs were usually replaced every 3-6 runs. When we started using the .750 lift cam (top of the line back then) If we got 6 runs on the springs we did well. A good indicator was the lash caps. If one was broken on a run, we had a real thrash as it meant R&R the heads and change valve springs. A set of springs were already set up with shims etc just for this and we could do it in 20 min easy.
We used the top of the line tapered moly push rods no stock stuff. While there were polished aftermarket rocker arms most used stock rockers with lash caps. Everyone ran valves after a run. Fuel guys used flat tappets and us alcohol guys used rollers. We checked over the rollers every week. Sometimes one would be cracked but generally they held up. I lost our only failed to run pass due to a broken roller (new too). The valve springs were very close to coil bind, about .030 between coils. Titanium retainers were standard. Aftermarket locks and 5/16 valve stems. You could use stock Manley valves on the intake but stainless exhaust was mandantory. We have very little trouble with valves. When the heads were prepared it was often necessary to gring pushrod clearance in both the block and the heads. Remember the pushrods flex so a scarred one meant a regrind of the area (complete tear down sometimes)

Even the few stock hemi we repaired in the shop got the valve train up grades. We didn't have problems here. I worked for 2 years with a guy that Mopar sponsored while he stayed at our shop. He ran prostock Mopar and was part of the Landy group. They ran pretty high rpm too and used the same stuff we used. No problems in the valve train.

I guess if there was a problem it was the block itself as the fuel guys began making more hp the blocks began failing with cracked mains and split cyl. We even did a few on Alcohol.

So my take on this particular setup is that there is insufficient valve springs,retainers, valves, push rod clearance, maybe piston to valve clearance, pushrods, and maybe just plain over reving, maybe not adjusting the valves correctly. I suppose there could be a geometry problem with the rocker wiping the valve and inducing some sever side loads. Maybe the valve guides are too tight or too loose. The final thing I would go after is the timing chain. I don't think I ever had any of these work with a chain. We always used a gear drive. Donovan, Milodon, KB ed Pink and otheres. I don't know how these Stage 5 heads oil but usually lack of oil was not a problem...too much oil was. Since I haven't had a close look at these, I don't know how they deal with the inner head studs. It's possible there is a gasket problem but I surely would think Stage 5 would have addressed this.

The same goes for the roof of the ports...maybe flexing, but again S5 would have seen this. Ya gotta remember a hemi valve train is heavier than a SBC by quite a bit so it takes more extreme measure to make it rpm capable.
As for too big of ports...maybe you don't need as much cam and rpm as you thought. Easy up a bit and develope a bit flatter torque curve. I'm spoiled with blowers but even in the fuel and alcohol days cams made a difference. You didn't always have to wind the death out of them. Some of the BBC heads of today flow a lot more than what the stock hemi's did back then.

As for being the parts washer and broom pusher...the boss's son went on to be a famous editor in the car mag business for many years. I 'd rather have kids doing parts washing and broom pushing and playing in the shop than drugs and other things they get into.
My older boys both played in the shop for years. The oldest makes as much as an auto mech as I do as sr. mech eng. #2 has already made more than his brother and I combined will in a lifetime. haha

As for smoking... never smoked in my life, never will. I played too many sports too hard. Just retired from amatuer baseball at 62, and finished adult tackel football at 60. Still play serious softball, and roll 199 bowling (not the easy lanes either). Don't drive the racer anymore as the reaction time is just too slow but still hang around my son's interest. Play smoke games with the Dodge diesel dually, and enjoy a good burnout once in a while. Nothing like laying a good cloud of soot on a powerstroke. haha BTW I don't have a rocking chair or a cane yet. haha I can still crack the lug nuts loose on the dually with the breaker bar.

good discussion

bentwings

 

I was kidding about the smoking, my stepdad used to be smoking when we were rebuilding engines and I had the gasoline filled oilpan washing parts!
I was guessing on the port problem for the stage V's since I see alot of good running blown alky cars running them but every time I see them on a regular streeter it's slow.
I would imagine that the machining would be done to the block correctly and that by now the heads would be ready to go.
Have you checked out the new smallblock Hemi? It's got alot of very cool upgrades like the cam being higher in the block and having a larger base circle. The heads have a nice quench area on either side of the combustion chamber, and the rods are .125 longer than the old small block rods.

 

someone was also selling hemi-style heads at the nationals last year for a small block

 

Yah I saw the SB heads/motor. Pretty cool. Being more oriented to nitro/alcohol than gasser and oriented to FC especially I don't know how these might hold up to a full load of nitro or 40+ pounds of boost. Sure would make a nice junior fuel motor!! I don't know if you could get a 7.50 in a nostalgia FC or not. It takes 1300 hp if you are over 2100 pounds and most places limit to 6-71 maybe 8-71 and 35 % over drive. I'd guess one would fit in my 41 ****** a lot easier than the BB Hemi. Besides who need 800 hp on the street??? I know my age is showing. haha
Sign here if you can really use 800 hp on the street.

Maybe get a 1000 posts or more well see.

While I was at the Carcraft event in St Paul a couple weeks ago I didn't see any of the "fakes", the few hemi's were "auw naturale" . there were even a couple super birds but I think these were fakes. I may have missed some as there were a lot of cars there.

I just looked at a Mopar mag at the store and I reall didn't see much there either. The big news is that it looks like Mopar is/has released the 426 as a crate over the counter motor. Most assuredly not cheap!!! It looks like they have really addressed some of the shortcomings of the original design. 35 yr too late. This wil really be a boon for the stock and super stock racers. Streetrodders? A lot of $$$ for a hemi.

Just for fun I added a pic of our Alcohol FC in it's prime. Not sure where this is , probably the GRove '75.

bentwings

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