440 power recipes.
#1
03-28-2009, 07:57 PM
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440 power recipes.
Hi y'all, I just bought a 440 out of a 1976 motor home and I am looking to build it up for my 1985 Dodge Ramcharger that I call the Beater. I am looking for around 500 - 550 horsepower. Do y'all have any suggestions or build recipes so that I could obtain that much hp? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I guess that I should also tell y'all that it is used for a variety of different kinds of four wheeling. From rocks to sand and snow to trail riding. Just about everything that you could think of. Thanks in advance.
LT.
LT.
#2
03-30-2009, 09:31 PM
If you really want that much power, the first thing to do is to ditch the stock heads and buy either a set of edelbrock performer rpm's or a set of 440source.com's aluminum heads. The 440source heads are cheaper, at around $900 for a set, assembled. That's a crackhead deal. You cannot possibly pay someone to port a set of 40 year old stock iron castings enough to make your power goals and come out anywhere near that cheap. Then, you still have heavily ported castings that may crack at some point.
With decent heads, you can make your power goal with a solid flat tappet cam. A roller cam would be easier to do it with, but converting to a roller cam costs about $800 the last time I checked (some years ago) and is unnecessary for the power you want to make. You're probably looking for something in the 255-265 degrees at .050" duration, with lift being roughly .590-.620. These are ballpark figures. With a setup like this, I'd guestimate that peak torque would occur somewhere around 4000-4300 rpm and peak hp at about 6400 or so. This stuff varies somewhat depending on a number of variables, including what specific cam you choose, what heads, manifold/header selection, etc.
As for the bottom end of the motor, any stock crank is fine at these power and rpm levels. It needn't be a forged crank, though if it's cast and you want to run an automatic behind it, you'd be well advised to get a b&m weighted flexplate so that you don't have to run a weighted torque converter. Most aftermarket converters are neutral balanced, which means you'd have to weld a weight to the converter at the right place to run a cast crank without a weighted flexplate.
Stock rods are ok, but there are aftermarket rods cheaply enough available that you just need to go on and get a set. 440source is a good source for those too. They're made of much better metal than the stock ones were to start with, and they have 0 stress cycles when you get them, not 9 million or whatever used stock rods would have.
Pistons-count on running a good set of aftermarket pistons, preferably forged. Diamond, Ross, and a few others I forget the name of will do.
The block will need to be decked-big block chryslers have notoriously poor quality control from the factory in this area. I had a '69 440 block zero decked several years ago. It took 8 thousandths on one side to do it, and 14 thousandths on the other.
At this point, you'd have a set of pistons and rods much lighter than stock components. That's good, but it means a balance job is pretty much a must. When you step back and look at the total cost of these bottom end components and the machine work required to assemble them, it starts to make sense to buy a stroker kit. I know I sound like a broken record, but 440source has a TON of stroker kit options that are VERY competitively priced. They are not top of the line-you won't make 1500 hp with them, but they're strong enough to make more power than is required to break a stock block, and far more than 550 hp.
THEN, following this logic further, I honestly need to try to steer you away from a 440-based engine altogether. Any size motor you can reasonably build in a stock 440 block, you can build better in a 400 block. I bet you think I'm crazy now. Let me explain: The 440 block has a huge deck height-10.78". That's far taller than what's required to build engines so big they'll tear the stock block apart. The lowdeck blocks (of which the 400 is the biggest) has a shorter deck height, but it's still quite tall compared to motors like the big block chevy. The 400 actually has a bigger bore than the 440. It's 20 thousandths bigger. The reason it's a 40 cubic inch smaller motor is because the stroke is so much shorter. The low deck motors have a 3.38" stroke, and the tall decks (440, 426, 413) have a 3.75" stroke. There's PLENTY of room to stuff a longer stroke into a 400 block. One very common aftermarket stroke length is 4.15". In a 30 over 400 block that yields a 496.
Now, you may be wondering why a 400 block is better? Well, several reasons. First, it's easier to fit a lowdeck motor in any vehicle. It's about an inch narrower and a little shorter from top to bottom. Remember, the deck height is shorter. That means the cylinder heads end up a little closer together. It's also a stronger block. Yes, a 400 is quite a bit stronger on the bottom end than a 440. Don't get me wrong, either is quite capable of the power levels you are shooting for. The 400 stroker can just do it more easily. The 400 is also about 20 to 25 lbs lighter. Not a big deal, but weight savings add up.
The cylinder bores are likely to also be thicker at a given engine size on a 400 build, because they started out .020" bigger. So, to achieve a given bore size you don't have to bore as much metal out. They also tend to seal better, partly because of thickness and partly because the length of cylinder wall hanging out in space unsupported in the water jackets is less. Remember, lower deck height. That means shorter cylinders. The cylinders are supported by the block only at the top and bottom. A shorter section that has no support is stronger and less prone to flexing. Flexing cylinders leak more combustion gases past the piston rings, which means more blowby and less power.
Go here to literally see why I say 400 blocks are stronger than 440's:
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm
Take the time to look at the pictures, paying particular attention to the areas they highlight with arrows and lines.
The bottom end of a stroker motor MAY cost more up front, but the extra money will probably more than be recouped elsewhere. First, a stroker won't need to turn as high rpm to make a given amount of power, so you won't need to invest as much in valvesprings, rockers, pushrods, etc. It will make more torque and at a lower rpm, allowing you to run a tighter torque converter and less gear in the axles. It just plain won't work as hard to make the power as a shorter stroke motor. The aftermarket components will be of far better quality than any stock parts you might reuse, so it'll be less likely to experience component failure down the road. Finally, they're just more fun!
With decent heads, you can make your power goal with a solid flat tappet cam. A roller cam would be easier to do it with, but converting to a roller cam costs about $800 the last time I checked (some years ago) and is unnecessary for the power you want to make. You're probably looking for something in the 255-265 degrees at .050" duration, with lift being roughly .590-.620. These are ballpark figures. With a setup like this, I'd guestimate that peak torque would occur somewhere around 4000-4300 rpm and peak hp at about 6400 or so. This stuff varies somewhat depending on a number of variables, including what specific cam you choose, what heads, manifold/header selection, etc.
As for the bottom end of the motor, any stock crank is fine at these power and rpm levels. It needn't be a forged crank, though if it's cast and you want to run an automatic behind it, you'd be well advised to get a b&m weighted flexplate so that you don't have to run a weighted torque converter. Most aftermarket converters are neutral balanced, which means you'd have to weld a weight to the converter at the right place to run a cast crank without a weighted flexplate.
Stock rods are ok, but there are aftermarket rods cheaply enough available that you just need to go on and get a set. 440source is a good source for those too. They're made of much better metal than the stock ones were to start with, and they have 0 stress cycles when you get them, not 9 million or whatever used stock rods would have.
Pistons-count on running a good set of aftermarket pistons, preferably forged. Diamond, Ross, and a few others I forget the name of will do.
The block will need to be decked-big block chryslers have notoriously poor quality control from the factory in this area. I had a '69 440 block zero decked several years ago. It took 8 thousandths on one side to do it, and 14 thousandths on the other.
At this point, you'd have a set of pistons and rods much lighter than stock components. That's good, but it means a balance job is pretty much a must. When you step back and look at the total cost of these bottom end components and the machine work required to assemble them, it starts to make sense to buy a stroker kit. I know I sound like a broken record, but 440source has a TON of stroker kit options that are VERY competitively priced. They are not top of the line-you won't make 1500 hp with them, but they're strong enough to make more power than is required to break a stock block, and far more than 550 hp.
THEN, following this logic further, I honestly need to try to steer you away from a 440-based engine altogether. Any size motor you can reasonably build in a stock 440 block, you can build better in a 400 block. I bet you think I'm crazy now. Let me explain: The 440 block has a huge deck height-10.78". That's far taller than what's required to build engines so big they'll tear the stock block apart. The lowdeck blocks (of which the 400 is the biggest) has a shorter deck height, but it's still quite tall compared to motors like the big block chevy. The 400 actually has a bigger bore than the 440. It's 20 thousandths bigger. The reason it's a 40 cubic inch smaller motor is because the stroke is so much shorter. The low deck motors have a 3.38" stroke, and the tall decks (440, 426, 413) have a 3.75" stroke. There's PLENTY of room to stuff a longer stroke into a 400 block. One very common aftermarket stroke length is 4.15". In a 30 over 400 block that yields a 496.
Now, you may be wondering why a 400 block is better? Well, several reasons. First, it's easier to fit a lowdeck motor in any vehicle. It's about an inch narrower and a little shorter from top to bottom. Remember, the deck height is shorter. That means the cylinder heads end up a little closer together. It's also a stronger block. Yes, a 400 is quite a bit stronger on the bottom end than a 440. Don't get me wrong, either is quite capable of the power levels you are shooting for. The 400 stroker can just do it more easily. The 400 is also about 20 to 25 lbs lighter. Not a big deal, but weight savings add up.
The cylinder bores are likely to also be thicker at a given engine size on a 400 build, because they started out .020" bigger. So, to achieve a given bore size you don't have to bore as much metal out. They also tend to seal better, partly because of thickness and partly because the length of cylinder wall hanging out in space unsupported in the water jackets is less. Remember, lower deck height. That means shorter cylinders. The cylinders are supported by the block only at the top and bottom. A shorter section that has no support is stronger and less prone to flexing. Flexing cylinders leak more combustion gases past the piston rings, which means more blowby and less power.
Go here to literally see why I say 400 blocks are stronger than 440's:
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm
Take the time to look at the pictures, paying particular attention to the areas they highlight with arrows and lines.
The bottom end of a stroker motor MAY cost more up front, but the extra money will probably more than be recouped elsewhere. First, a stroker won't need to turn as high rpm to make a given amount of power, so you won't need to invest as much in valvesprings, rockers, pushrods, etc. It will make more torque and at a lower rpm, allowing you to run a tighter torque converter and less gear in the axles. It just plain won't work as hard to make the power as a shorter stroke motor. The aftermarket components will be of far better quality than any stock parts you might reuse, so it'll be less likely to experience component failure down the road. Finally, they're just more fun!
Last edited by v8440; 03-30-2009 at 09:34 PM.
#3
04-25-2009, 02:19 PM
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Thank you for your reply. I am going to look into it further. My only problem is that I already have a 440 that I bought from a fella in Utah. It came out of a 1976 Winnabego. I am still a little unsure if I want to stroke it out or keep it at 440. If I stroke it out then it will be a 500.
LT.
LT.
