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1st Gen Durango 1998 - 2003 Durango's

transfer case maintenance

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:37 PM
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Default transfer case maintenance

so after my durango gets fixed from the wreck id like to overhaul the transfer case. like basic stuff. change the fluid and such. i need to know what to do and such. any suggestions on stuff to do while im doin that... should i change the fluid in the front differencial as well at the same time? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:50 PM
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only real maintance on the t-case is fluid change, ATF +4 only

front and rear differentials should be changed with the appropriate weight of gear oil (check your manual) and friciton modifier in the rear if you have LSD
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:26 AM
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Don't use ATF+4 in a 1998, stocker or equivalent replacement fluids only. 2000 is the transition year based on build date; some yes, some no. Same for the Powersteering unless adding all new equipment.

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Old 06-20-2011, 01:15 AM
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Indy, what should i use in a 98 for the transfercase? i know the tranny takes atf+4
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:23 AM
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No ATF+4 in the 98 actually. ATF+4 for "everything" is internet rumor gone amuck. One can't just rely on what you read on the interwebs.

Directly from the FSM:

"Mopar ATF Plus 3, Type 7176 automatic transmission fluid is the recommended fluid for Chrysler automatic transmissions.
Dexron II fluid IS NOT recommended. Clutch chatter can result from the use of improper fluid."


+4 has different properties. In most old, high mileage applications like a '98 would be, just switching to +4 now results in the seals leaking. Usually all of them. Also, the mechanic will always need to know it is +4 becasue the wear poperties are different too (color, smell, etc usually used to diagnose "bad" fluid which are no longer applicable with ATF+4.)

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Old 06-20-2011, 09:24 AM
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i thought ATF +3 was no longer produced and that ATF +3 trucks should switch to +4 . . .
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:12 AM
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Not produced from Chrysler, yes. All shops have equilv aftermarket +3 and will for decades.

As for "should switch"... def not. Well, not unless you want to adhere to Chrysler's nudge and end up buying a new vehicle in the long run.

Cause and Effect.

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Old 06-20-2011, 12:09 PM
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i didnt know that,

thanks for the info indy,
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:15 PM
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as far as i knew atf+4 was a replacement for what was normally used because the normal fluid wasn't being manufactured anymore. i haven't seen atf+3 anywhere
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:14 PM
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The Noob at the local Advance Auto Parts tried to tell me that Dodge recommends GEAR OIL in the transfer case! Guess i should have told him to a little closer.....

So you say that us '98ers should be using ATF+3? Where do they sell it anymore?? i have not seen it... im curious cause i plan to do a full fluid change sometime before fall..
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyDurango View Post
Don't use ATF+4 in a 1998, stocker or equivalent replacement fluids only. 2000 is the transition year based on build date; some yes, some no. Same for the Powersteering unless adding all new equipment.

No ATF+4 in the 98 actually. ATF+4 for "everything" is internet rumor gone amuck. One can't just rely on what you read on the interwebs.

Directly from the FSM:

"Mopar ATF Plus 3, Type 7176 automatic transmission fluid is the recommended fluid for Chrysler automatic transmissions.
Dexron II fluid IS NOT recommended. Clutch chatter can result from the use of improper fluid."


+4 has different properties. In most old, high mileage applications like a '98 would be, just switching to +4 now results in the seals leaking. Usually all of them. Also, the mechanic will always need to know it is +4 becasue the wear poperties are different too (color, smell, etc usually used to diagnose "bad" fluid which are no longer applicable with ATF+4.)

Not produced from Chrysler, yes. All shops have equilv aftermarket +3 and will for decades.

As for "should switch"... def not. Well, not unless you want to adhere to Chrysler's nudge and end up buying a new vehicle in the long run.

Cause and Effect.


Sorry Indy, but all that is classic bull crap! http://dodgeforum.com/forum/1st-gen-...f-4-facts.html

Quote:
The Center for Quality Assurance, which Chrysler uses to run its ATF+4 licensing program, wrote: “The previous MOPAR ATF+3® formulation was discontinued in 2005 and ATF+4® is recommended for all transmissions filled with ATF+3®.”

Several companies now sell "universal" fluids. If they state that they are compatible with ATF+4®, they may work well, especially for those unsure of which fluid to use. The Center for Quality Assurance warned us to check the label for Chrysler’s license number, and to make sure the fluid is on their list of ATF+4® licensed and tested fluids.
Second, the old power steering fluid in the 1998-1999 if equipped was a "Brown" power steering fluid only available from Chrysler. It was not a "Red" normal power steering fluid, nor did it have any of the properties of it or properties of ATF fluids whether ATF+3 or ATF+4. http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2003/19-005-03.htm Now some of the 1998-1999 did have a "Red" Power Steering fluid, but it was not ATF. THis is why 1998-1999 Durango owners should take their VIN numbers in to the dealer to find out what fluid is needed.

Quote:
[FONT='trebuchet ms', tahoma, sans-serif]ATF+4® is approved for use in older transmissions and is currently utilized in newer Chrysler®, Jeep® and Dodge® vehicles. The previous MOPAR ATF+3® formulation was discontinued in 2005 and ATF+4® is recommended for all transmissions filled with ATF+3®.[/font]
http://www.centerforqa.com/

Chrylser it's self denounced ATF+3 type 7176 use.
Quote:
NOTE: ATF+4 is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4 can be used to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2 or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4 fluid.
http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm

The reason that after the use of ATF+4 causes so called "Leaks" is because it has a lot of the same properties as Fully Synthetic oils. It has better viscosity improvers and detergents. As it cleans out all the crap left over from a failing ATF+3 fluid that only lasts 30,000 miles before it shears. Also because of the new viscosity improvers keep the fluid more stable it also renders it lighter therefore aiding in possible leakage from worn seals, hardened seals from time, and removed build up. If the seals are good and there is no worn parts it simply won't leak, see the newer styles that are using it.

ATF+4 was designed to alleviate this issue. It was designed to become a factory fill for a life of 100,000 miles, in other words a factory fill that render the Transmission and Transfer Cases non-serviceable or not needed. ATF+4 has every additive in it as ATF+3 only better, they didn't make it completely different.

Next lets move into the the use of ATF in the Transfer Case. Actually if it were me I would use Mobil One Fully Synthetic ATF in the transfer case over ATF+3 or ATF+4 because it has even higher anti wear properties then them and because it was designed for CAT and Alison transmissions, which required modification even further than Chrysler ATF+4 could handle before shearing. When they were being manufactured, Chrysler ATF+4 fuild was used because it had every property they thought they needed, but it was quickly identified that they needed even more additives. Gear oil could be used, and was for years, but I wouldn't use it because these T-case was designed for lighter ATF.

Regardless, there are no clutches or any of that crap in these transfer case's, it simply only needs to be lubricated as there are only bearings and a chain in there. The main reason they use ATF in there is because it has better properties, not because they need it.

Finally, I haven't seen any ATF+3 on the shelves for at least 2-3 years, then again why would a company want to sell a fluid that is superseded with a better fluid and the new fluid has every additive as the old only better? Sounds like these "manufactures" are cleaning out the old fluid still in stock.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hydrashocker View Post
Sorry Indy, but all that is classic bull crap! http://dodgeforum.com/forum/1st-gen-...f-4-facts.html

Second, the old power steering fluid in the 1998-1999 if equipped was a "Brown" power steering fluid only available from Chrysler. It was not a "Red" normal power steering fluid, nor did it have any of the properties of it or properties of ATF fluids whether ATF+3 or ATF+4. http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2003/19-005-03.htm Now some of the 1998-1999 did have a "Red" Power Steering fluid, but it was not ATF. THis is why 1998-1999 Durango owners should take their VIN numbers in to the dealer to find out what fluid is needed.

http://www.centerforqa.com/

Chrylser it's self denounced ATF+3 type 7176 use.
http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm

The reason that after the use of ATF+4 causes so called "Leaks" is because it has a lot of the same properties as Fully Synthetic oils. It has better viscosity improvers and detergents. As it cleans out all the crap left over from a failing ATF+3 fluid that only lasts 30,000 miles before it shears. Also because of the new viscosity improvers keep the fluid more stable it also renders it lighter therefore aiding in possible leakage from worn seals, hardened seals from time, and removed build up. If the seals are good and there is no worn parts it simply won't leak, see the newer styles that are using it.

ATF+4 was designed to alleviate this issue. It was designed to become a factory fill for a life of 100,000 miles, in other words a factory fill that render the Transmission and Transfer Cases non-serviceable or not needed. ATF+4 has every additive in it as ATF+3 only better, they didn't make it completely different.

Next lets move into the the use of ATF in the Transfer Case. Actually if it were me I would use Mobil One Fully Synthetic ATF in the transfer case over ATF+3 or ATF+4 because it has even higher anti wear properties then them and because it was designed for CAT and Alison transmissions, which required modification even further than Chrysler ATF+4 could handle before shearing. When they were being manufactured, Chrysler ATF+4 fuild was used because it had every property they thought they needed, but it was quickly identified that they needed even more additives. Gear oil could be used, and was for years, but I wouldn't use it because these T-case was designed for lighter ATF.

Regardless, there are no clutches or any of that crap in these transfer case's, it simply only needs to be lubricated as there are only bearings and a chain in there. The main reason they use ATF in there is because it has better properties, not because they need it.

Finally, I haven't seen any ATF+3 on the shelves for at least 2-3 years, then again why would a company want to sell a fluid that is superseded with a better fluid and the new fluid has every additive as the old only better? Sounds like these "manufactures" are cleaning out the old fluid still in stock.
Thanks for the well informed tutourial hydra! i think i understand much better now... one question tho.. How hard are the transfer cases to rebuild? mine is the one with full and part-time 4wd (cant remember the #) and i wanna rebuild one before the nasty weather hits
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:53 PM
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There not very hard,

it's a simple gear box with an oil pump and a chain. It has a planetary gear set with sycro's. It looks like you have a 1999 5.2L so you should have a NV231 in it. You can get a master bearing and seal set for it for about $100 bucks, then about $100 for a new chain. www.sixstates.com This will give you an idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CslfaAN_V-E
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:02 AM
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Here is another Mopar TSB regarding the use of ATF+3 to ATF+4: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2006/21-010-06.htm
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:47 AM
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So the factory FSM is "classic bull crap"? Okay then! You heard it emphatically here so he simply must be right.

Swap +4 on a 98 and expect issues. Stick with compatible +3 and service at proper intervals and you will be fine as can be for a 14 year old transmission.

You got the parts right about +4 being a better fluid and the sheer properties. Doesn't mean it works for everyone.

As for the power steering, they clearly state that early 2000s and anything BEFORE should NOT use +4 in the PS. Here is the chart for those keeping score at home:

Click the image to open in full size.

Here is your legend for the mere mortals in the audience: The "DN" body indicator is the code for DURANGO. "MS9602" is code for ATF+4, and "built before June 1st 2001" means... well... built before June 1st 2001.

HS, I think you still miss the underlying theme that Chrysler sells autos and could care less if you loose a transmission based on an unwise fluid swap. They are happy to sell you a new one. Also, regardless of what they say NOW, you can clearly see from the chart THEN that +4 was not intended to be universally compatible. Any changes thereof are revisionist history and self serving for Chrysler.

BTW, your provided link confirms my statement about +4 misc changes in testing regarding color and smell differences: http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm
And your link here has the same "don't use +4 in your power steering for 1998-2000 Durangos" as I stated and provided above in the earlier Chrysler-released chart, albeit yours is in an expanded chart form:
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2003/19-005-03.htm

See, not classic bull crap after all I guess.

I'm out

IndyD
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:42 AM
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ok well i stopped at the auto store and there is no atf+3 on the shelfs, im using atf+4 in my tranny and in my powersteering pump, im using powerstearing fluid. my tranny is not 14 years old... its almost brand new, has atf+4 in it and has no leaks. runs perfectly. back to the main thing though... transfer case... would you recomend just a fluid change or should i do more
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:43 AM
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So the factory FSM is "classic bull crap"? Okay then! You heard it emphatically here so he simply must be right.


No you completely missed the point. The FSM was written BEFORE the ATF+4 lubricant was initiated. The TSB clearly states the use of ATF+4 as a full and compliant fluid that nullifies the use of ATF+3! http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm They won't go back in time to re-write the FSM. The ATF+4 fluid is FULLY compatible with these 1st generation Durango’s.

Quote:
Swap +4 on a 98 and expect issues.


This is an incorrect analogy. ATF+4 have EVERY component of its predecessor. It can't cause any type of failure that was not there in the beginning from a fluid that was not built to actually go to 60,000 mile intervals as stated in the manual. A 30,000 mile interval was not ever given to my knowledge for a 1st generation Durango.

Quote:
You got the parts right about +4 being a better fluid and the sheer properties. Doesn't mean it works for everyone.


I know I got it right, that's why I posted up the correct information. The fluid is the same only better. Turn over the bottle and read the specifications. It will not work for everyone as the TSB illustrates, however in the 1st generation Durango’s it is fully and completely applicable. The reason it is not applicable in others (according to the TSB) would be that a specification was removed in ATF+4 that was needed for their operation, however in these cases a additive is then bottled for use and sold just like friction modifiers are.

Quote:
HS, I think you still miss the underlying theme that Chrysler sells autos and could care less if you loose a transmission based on an unwise fluid swap. They are happy to sell you a new one. Also, regardless of what they say NOW, you can clearly see from the chart THEN that +4 was not intended to be universally compatible. Any changes thereof are revisionist history and self serving for Chrysler.


Indy, you have missed the "underlying theme" because it doesn't matter what Chrysler thinks, it is FEDERALLY regulated! They just can't do this and that, and that's why fluids and oils are regulated. In my post you obviously didn't see that I am agreeing with you. I said there were 2 different types of Power Steering fluids in 1998-1999. One was Red, one was Brown. The Brown is a fluid ONLY provided by the dealership. The Red was a regular style Red Power Steering Fluid, it was NEVER ATF+3, it was PS fluid. And even after that, the PS fluid changed into ATF+4 therefore creating 3 different types.

Quote:
BTW, your provided link confirms my statement about +4 misc changes in testing regarding color and smell differences: http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm


Where did I say it wasn’t? Of course they are going to be different. They have different additives and they have different base stock oil.

Quote:
And your link here has the same "don't use +4 in your power steering for 1998-2000 Durangos" as I stated and provided above in the earlier Chrysler-released chart, albeit yours is in an expanded chart form:


I never said you could! I said the Brown is only replaced with brown, and Red was never to be compliant with ATF+4 either. Now the third Red is ATF+4. What they decided was instead of having 2 Red fluids almost identical, they would just factory fill with ATF+4 because the extra additives did not hurt the PS system after testing. Factory fill now is ATF+4 on those particular systems, however pre-ATF+4 Red fuid is still sold and is encoraged in the older system where Red PS fluid was used.


Been through this already, and I've done my homework. You are putting words in my mouth, or did not fully read my statement.


Next lets move back on Transfer Case fluid which is back on topic, how we ever got into Power Steering Fluid when we are talking about transfer case fluid is beyond me.

ATF+4 is fully compliant in the Transfer Case and in the Transmissions of all of the 1st generation Durango’s, never said Power Steering systems.


srch4me<---------------------------------------------------

ATF+4 in your transmission will work flawlessly.

Power Steering fluid will not work however, because you have a 1998 you need to call your dealer and see if you in fact have "Brown" power steering fluid in your rig. If you do then the Red style that you bought is not compliant with your system if you have Brown. You will need to go to the dealer and buy Brown fluid, about $7.50 per qt. Red is a different fluid then that of ATF+4, but after the testing they say you can use it, however I would buy the correct Red power steering fluid because of your year.

As for the Transfer Case, just drain the fluid and replace the fluid with ATF+4. It should take about 1.25 quarts. Get one of those flexible funnels that screw to the top of the quart bottles that are like .50 cents that will help you to get it in there because it's a VERY tight fit.
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:54 PM
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ok guys it seems that the facts have been presented by both sides, lets let it go and let people read through it and make the correct decision for themselves,


srch, sorry about this, but i hope you got your answers.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:19 PM
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i think i have.... only thing i need to know is how to drain and fill it... is there a plug on it or do i have to unbolt the case
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:30 PM
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i think i have.... only thing i need to know is how to drain and fill it... is there a plug on it or do i have to unbolt the case
You will find 2 plugs on the right side of the case top one is the fill plug bottom is the drain plug...
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