the timing on my motor is right as far as the spark. i changed the plenum and it hasnt started since. im thinking something that controls the injectors might be bad. it fires on about 3 cylnders

 

i also forgot to ad ive changed the cam sensor crank sensor . i took it to the dealership and they said it was the timing had jumped. so i changed the timing chain and gears which hadnt even jumped but was loose and still nothing i dnt no what to do. ive checked the asd relay and every other fuse and relay except the engine inline.

 

Are you getting an injector code?
Did you double check to make sure you didnt mix up injector connectors?
The connectors have a tendancy to crap out with age & when removing the manifold.
The detents that hold them to the injectors wear with vibration & may not make full contact, some even will get brittle & crack.
Wiring can also get brittle & may have broken a wire or two just before the wire goes into the connector.

With the engine idling, gently grab & push down on every injector connector and see if any change.
If no improvement try to gently push the wires into the connector from above.

If no change still, could find an injector test light kit.
With it idling you disconnect one injector & plug the test light into the connector. If it strobes the light in a uniform manner, the wires & connector are getting a good signal. Reconnect & move onto the next one.

Did you do anything else other than the plenum? New plugs & wires? If yes, double/triple check wiring to make sure its correct

 

Assuming that your Dodge ran before you changed your intake, I think the issue is the CKPS that you changed. That's the root cause for all your problems (assuming that it ran before) If it DID NOT run before, then, that's another issue that I am not aware of.

It's not your injectors though. Taking them in and out will not affect the lifespan in anyway unless you damage the ends but, it would STILL START.

Yes, the connections go bad but, at worst, they go intermittent and, you'd see an open / short fault code relating to that system- that's not your problem.

The thing is, it didn't just jump timing- some *** over there doesn't know how to read the diagnostics correctly or trouble shoot properly.

Here's what you need to do.

Put the old CKPS back in but, you need to clear out the PCM first by removing all power for at least five minutes to clear out the RAM.

While waiting for it to drain the caps, put the old CKPS back in. By the time your finished, the PCM will have been cleared out 100%. Reconnect the negative battery cable and restart.

If it starts- all it was- a bad CKPS that was out of phase or, a good one but, is out of SYNC. WHERE DID YOU PURCHASE YOUR CKPS? If dealer, good, if not, bad. I bought two that didn't work as they were out of phase on the waveform output. Dealer part worked but, I had to have it resync'd as it was off from the original CKPS.

This is very very common mode of error. It's not a failure, but an error and, the tech is not very good if he knew that you had changed it out and he didn't bother to read the damn sync values at the PCM level with the DRB tool that they have there.

For Christ's sakes, they have a 70-100K rack rig with a scope and he's telling you the timing jumped after you informed him of the history of what was done?

Did you inform him that you changed the CKPS? IF not, then, he still should have seen the error at the sync values which, the first thing to do there is to reset the sync offset value in the PCM program with a DRB III tool and retest at the very least.

This kind of thing ticks me off as if you can't tell. Bad trouble shooting skills that has led them to tell you your timing jumped thus leading you to changing out your timing chain, water pump, possible oil pan gasket as well.

Those timing chains do wear so, that's a good thing to change it but, that's not your issue.

Sounds like the issue is rooted at an offset sync value. Don't go back there. Find another dealer or someone who has a DRB rig / tool and knows the process of retiming your cam to your crank and tell them you want them to reset the sync and retime your CAM (CPS) to your CRANK (CKPS).

It will run fine once that is done as it "should" with the old CKPS.

Try the old one first and see what happens and let me know.

CM

 

where is the crank sensor on a 4.7 2001

 

the only reason i changed the cam sensor and the crank sensor is because it was doing the same thing except not firing at all and i figured it was one of the two. i will try putting the old ckps back in and see what happens. the t-chain had alot of slack so i thought maybe it had enough play to not let the motor start. it fires now but on a few clynders so maybe it is the ckps. thanks for the info i will look at it tmrw

 

Ah, so, it did have a pre-existing condition before you changed the intake? In the first post, it sounded like all that was done was changed the intake and it hadn't run since. I can't get a clear picture of whether it ran pre / post intake change.

Looks like there's more to the story as indicated by your later post. My timing chain had an inch and half of slack when I changed it over to the Hughes set but, it never jumped a tooth even when tropping on it WOT.

You should put both back in a start from there. When I installed a new CPS, it was out of phase and would not run. Only the OEM CPS worked in my truck. Later, after asking why this was the case, I found those sensors must match the OEM specs or they will not work at all.

It sounds like there's some history missing. When did this occur- pre or post intake change? Was it running before the changeover?


Did you check the following?

COIL: Primary / secondary OHM to OEM spec
VDC: to the coil per OEM SPEC
COIL DRIVER CKT: using a LED light, test the ON/OFF pulse
ASD: VDC at the source at the power distribution center. This feed is what supplies voltage to the relay to make it work.

I read you checked the ASD relay. Did you check it in both powered and NON-powered modes? OHM test ON/OFF and it checked out?

If all that checks out, and, you've got ~14 volts at COIL input, then, chances are, it's not relating to the ignition system other than a blown dwell CKT at the diz but, it's uncommon to just die without warning.

If the CKPS is defective, sometimes the vehicle will start and sometimes, it will not. Depending on how bad the failure is, it will either trip the PCM auto shut down command and you won't be getting any voltage to the entire EFI system. This is a failsafe mechanism.

Now, if it's marginal where, the PCM sees the CKPS at the PCM input, then, what this usually indicates is that there is an out of time condition where, the offset value is too large thus requiring it to be reset at the PCM level.

In this case, everything will be off. Nothing will be in time because, the CKPS is the master clock / timing reference. If it's out, or out of phase, the vehicle will NEVER run until that is fixed at the PCM program level.

That being said, the real question is: when did this condition occur? Under what conditions did this engine just stop running? Was it being beat on and it just crapped out or, was it going in and out of time over days? There has to be some history here that will help trouble shoot and narrow it down to which system/s the problem is rooted.

If it was being beat on, or under heavy loading conditions, sure, it's possible that the timing chain jumped a tooth and now the CAM and CRANK are out of sync mechanically thus requiring the need to re-time the CAM to the CRANK as well as distributor to CAM relationship as well.

Then, once that's done, then you need to go in a fine tune it with a DRB III rig and check the offset value to ensure the fuel system is in sync.

 

all this happened after the intake. i will change the ckps later today back to the original one. if that doesnt help i will check the stuff you told me to. thanks for all the info you seem very knowledgeable about this stuff

 

That's because I have gone through so much of the same sh-i-t that's why I know what I know- from doing it and working on my own truck. I finally got my truck running to where I am confident about it.

I used to feel like I was driving a bad Harley- the old ones that you had to tie a bucket to the rear to catch all the parts that would fall off! You spend more time working on those than riding them!

That's how I was feeling about my truck. Up until the end of last summer, I had no issues with it, then, it was one thing after the other. I almost bought a Chevy for crying out loud. I was out in the garage for months but, in the end, it paid off for, now, this Dodge runs better now at 229+K miles, it runs better than when I got it.


Ok, so, enough of that nonsense- let's get back to it here. So, it was running fine before you changed the intake. OK, that's what I thought initially- it was running fine PRE intake changeover.

So, let's walk the path and take a look at what things changed during the intake that may have led to this condition along with what we know.

-we know it was running fine with the OEM sensors PRE changeover.

NOTE: I don't think it's your CKPS. WHY? It was running with it and, it worked. The only flag that comes to mind is: A PINCHED CKPS or CPS cable- check to see if the CPS harness is pinched under the intake in the rear corner. It's right there and, I have heard stories of this occurring so, take a peak and see if that's an issue or not.

Now, all the harnesses for the injectors came off, but, unless you wired them incorrectly, this shouldn't be an issue. Hell, they don't even need to be labeled as they come off the wiring harness in sequence anyway so, you'd have to put some effort in wiring them to the wrong injector. I never even labeled mine.

Ok, so I doubt that is your issue but, let's keep looking here.

The rails came off the old intake or, did you get new rails? If same OEM rails, those shouldn't be the issue either unless, they are very rusty at the inlet where the fuel line comes in. This would restrict the fuel going into the rails thus not allowing the fuel to pass but, that's a hard one to believe because, at 50PSI, and, at that diameter, I find it impossible that it would plug up solid.

ACTION ITEM: TEST THE FUEL PRESSURE

I want you to verify fuel pressure at the Schrader Valve. Get a fuel pressure gage rated for fuel, and find out what the pressure is. Just hit the key to <ON> three times. Do not rotate the engine. You should see close to 50PSI when cold.

Let's start there. Let's check one system at a time. Are you in a cold climate where, it's freezing?

Reason I ask is, when you change the intake, the fuel lines are removed and, when they are removed, they have a tendency to freeze due to air and water in the line thus plugging the lines.

This can be remedied by pouring hot water over the lines. This will allow you to start it and fill the lines with fuel and expel the air and moisture.

NOTE: disregard all of that if your not in a freezing climate.

NEXT:

Question about how you installed your sensors (MAP, IAC etc)

Q: When installing those: did you have the battery in or out of CKT?

Q: When installing the ALT connections: was the BAT in or out of CKT?

I am going to assume that you had it disconnected until the very end.

So, that being said, let's look at the ALT. Verify it's connected properly -wiring wise and that nothing is reversed or left disconnected such as a ground.

Start there.

 

i checked the fuel pressure and it is about 47psi. i will check to make sure the wire arent pinched but i no the ckps isnt becuae when i changed it i looked at it. i disconnectec the battery before doing all this. my alternator and ground are all hooked up. the rails are the same and they arent rusty at all