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Grade 8 or Torque-to-yield for intake manifold and plenum?

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Old 10-26-2011, 11:40 AM
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Default Grade 8 or Torque-to-yield for intake manifold and plenum?

So is there a good reason to use the vastly more expensive tty bolts on the manifold and plenum over a sturdy grade 8 bolt?
What kind of loc-tite do you recommend?
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:56 AM
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I just went to the dealership and got them for like $16. And theres a tiny "m" stamped on the top! Lol
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:06 PM
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I had the same dilemma and ended up choosing TTY. I wanted to do it right the first and forget about it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:10 PM
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IIRC, I went to Ace Hardware and bought some Grade 5 and installed them with red Locktite. Worked great as they were a bastard to remove this last time I tore into the engine.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VWandDodge View Post
IIRC, I went to Ace Hardware and bought some Grade 5 and installed them with red Locktite. Worked great as they were a bastard to remove this last time I tore into the engine.
Grade 5 are even cheaper. Any issues with damaging the threads? Another disadvantage of the tty bolts seems to be that they break, I am confident that grade 8 will hold up, just don't want to damage the threads.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:05 PM
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from what I've read, the grade 8's are fine.. the purpose for TTY is to hold the low torque, and not pull out.. if you're using something more- DON'T over torque, and use some sort of thread lock.. blam- you're good.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:13 PM
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Grade 8's and red or blue locktite do you think?
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:34 PM
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I think grade 5 will be even better than grade 8; a little more elastic, which is what you're looking for IMO. And I'd definitely go with medium strength (blue) loctite. It will hold just fine for what you're doing, and the fasteners will come back off a whole lot easier than with the red (high strength) stuff.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grox View Post
So is there a good reason to use the vastly more expensive tty bolts on the manifold and plenum over a sturdy grade 8 bolt?
What kind of loc-tite do you recommend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewactual View Post
from what I've read, the grade 8's are fine.. the purpose for TTY is to hold the low torque, and not pull out.. if you're using something more- DON'T over torque, and use some sort of thread lock.. blam- you're good.
Here's a great article to articulate Grade 8 vs Grade 5 bolts from the Fasteners perspective ONLY.

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...ners/index.asp


It's not wise to assume that the stronger bolt is the better/improved/upgraded path for an application. The significant part of the equation is the actual type of joint. More specifically, how the fastener is loaded. Some joints are tension only or dominant, while others are shear dominant. Read the article carefully as it has great analogy.

To highlight drewactual's point about over torqueing....this could not be further from the truth. Example, you use the greater capable fastener and torque it to x% of its yield. You now have potentially overtorqued for the application b/c it requires more torque to reach that load.


Use what the specs define for fastener size/threads/lube. Lube has a significant impact on the torque as well.

(I'm not familiar with the manifold bolts specifically, and only wanted to help clarify a need to be careful about just thinking about the fastener. That is misleading)
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:46 PM
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dig this: you're working with aluminum.. that is the material of the intake.. you're dealing with steel (most often), which is the material of the heads.. you've sandwiched a gasket between them.. the tty bolts stretch and conform to the chase, which is in effect what all bolts do, it's just they do it quicker and more completely.. we're talking 12lbs of torque- not much..

if you want to crack your manifold, by all means- crank a grade 5 or 8 to 80% tension of the bolts design..

if you want to skimp on the tty's (which, personally, I wouldn't, but that's me.. others do it all the time and with good results), use either 5's or 8's, but for the sake of the manifold, don't torque it anymore than 15lbs.. that thing needs to be held tight enough to maintain seal, but loose enough to float through heating cycles..

the 5's and 8's aren't softer metals with almost pliable tension strengths like the tty's, they are much harder, and therefor the threads won't conform and 'bite' like the tty's.. so, you gotta hedge your bet by using thread lock of some sort..

will the 5's or 8's suffice? yes.. are they easier to use than the tty's? yes, because you can re-use them at least once or twice more.. are they better? no.. they don't conform to the chase they are in, and they will have a tendency to want to loosen over several heating cycles.. loosen more without a thread lock, loosen less with..

there is more in play in this particular fasteners topic than the torquing ability of the fastener alone.

edited to add- the tty's made by design for this purpose are shanked before the heads.. and, about the thickness of the manifold where it is tapped.
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Last edited by drewactual; 10-26-2011 at 04:51 PM..
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99dodge318 View Post
I just went to the dealership and got them for like $16. And theres a tiny "m" stamped on the top! Lol
So if you go to the dealership and buy a set of bolts (for intake and plenum) what kind are you taking home? TTY?
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:59 PM
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Don't get the plenum bolts from the dealer, they come with the plate, no matter which one you get. Intake to engine bolts are TTY though. THOSE are found at the dealer, and surprisingly enough, cheaper than most other places.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:09 PM
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If you go the "grade 8" route, MAKE DAMN SURE YOU CLEAN ALL THREAD MATING SURFACES!!! If not, the thread locker is useless.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:32 PM
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Well...

I use Stainless Steel allen bolts from Home Depot, never had a problem with numerous manifold installs, never used any thread locker, (why?) and don't understand the need for grade 8 bolts on 12 ft lb torque rating...?
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:01 PM
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I reused the stockers I let you know when my truck explodes
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:13 PM
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This is an awesome description of bolt tightening theory: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...uetoangle.aspx
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahns5.2 View Post
I reused the stockers I let you know when my truck explodes
What...You did not buy into the Chrysler TTY bolt Hype/crap?
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:28 PM
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I use stainless. Every time I took the manifold off with either grade 5 or the stock bolts the things were corroded as all get out. I'll wager that blow by gases and electrolysis work a double whammy on them.

There are several charts on the Web with torque values for various bolts. IMO, the best bolt to use would be the one that gets as close to 144 in/lbs as possible at the correct torque yield.

Stainless is close. Monel bolts would be best, but its damn pricey for the corrosion resistance characteristics.

Be careful what you buy at the local hardware store. If you buy a 2.25" grade 5, because you are trying to match the length of the factory bolt, you might find that they run out of thread before you get adequate clamping force on the gasket. On the other hand, the 2" bolts only grab by a few threads. A 2.25" all thread bolt would be best.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:03 PM
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Is a thread locker recommended with the factory bolts?
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:52 PM
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I didn't use any, and the various manuals didn't call for it either.
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