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E85 gas or regular gas....

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2008, 03:47 AM
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bert6573 bert6573 is offline
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Default E85 gas or regular gas....

Ok, I know eveyone is feeling the increase in the high gas prices. Trust me, me too. FYI, cigarette prices were supposed to relieve rising gas prices, but what ever. So my question is should I be using E85 on my truck? I haven't had any problems with the regular gas, I just wanted to know the benefits of E85 gas. I've been told that E85 may be cheaper, but burns faster than regular gas. Is this true? Someone please give me some advice. Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:33 AM
04crimsonfury 04crimsonfury is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

You will get less mileage with a tank of E85 than a tank of reg gas(like 10 or 12 city instead of 13 or 14), I think it costs even more than gas, and its availability is low. BUT, its supposed to be equivalent to 100 octane gasoline so you'll get a small power boost and a clean burn (less emissions and less carbon build up in your engine and parts). Thats what I've summed up from reading about E85 from auto mags, I have an 04 Hemi so I can't give you first hand exp.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:58 AM
phlytyer phlytyer is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

ONLY USE E85 IF SO equipped. Ok to use E10 (regular +10% ethanol) if NOT equipped for E85. Supposedly, if equipped for E85, you should have an E85 sticker inside the fuel fill door. If not quipped for E85, DON'T try it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:27 AM
Hemichief Hemichief is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

If your car is not designed to use E-85 please dont use it. E-85 uses a higher grade of Corn based alcohol which becomes corrosive to some of the fittings on the fuel system. The fuel itself is not bad for the engine. Some may say that it is actually better since it burns better and cleaner. However, with that said, E85 engines have certain fuel parts that are modified to deal the fuel itself.

Bottom line would be if your truck is not "Flex Fuel" rated, dont use it.

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Old 03-13-2008, 07:32 AM
Baddog543 Baddog543 is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

+1

If you can use E85 your truck will have a tag on the body indicating that. Some have a badge saying Flex Fuel.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:49 AM
jerseydodge jerseydodge is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

I race snowmobiles and I jsut have some insight...

I know with a sled, if your try to burn higher octace ( OVER 93) with a "stock" head, you will actually lose performance. Higher octance actually burns slowers, AND cleaner...So, i'm runing a 17:5 compression ratio in my sled, on STOCK skidoos, its 12:2...NOt sure on the ram's if you would need to do some head work to get that added boost with the "100" octance...? i could be wrong though...
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:25 AM
HankL HankL is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

Consumer's Reports did some testing on a Chevy Tahoe and found what is reprinted below,
and I would guess a Ram 4.7 V8 flex-fuel would do about the same.
My mother has a model year 2001 3.3 V6 Flex Fuel Chrysler Town and Country and my father and I have found about 30% worse MPG on E85 with it on highway trips.
----
This chart shows how our 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe performed while running on E85
and gasoline in three fuel-economy tests and overall, in four acceleration
tests, and in three emissions tests for gasoline vehicles.

E85 GASOLINE*
Fuel economy, mpg
City 7 9
Highway 15 21
150-mile trip 13 18
Overall 10 14

Acceleration
0-30 mph, sec. 3.4 3.5
0-60 mph, sec. 8.9 9.1
45-65 mph, sec. 5.7 5.8
Quarter-mile, sec./mph 16.8/84.6 16.9/84.5
Emissions, parts per million
Nitrogen oxide 1 9
Hydrocarbons 1 1
Carbon monoxide 0 0
*Blended with 10 percent ethanol.

CONSUMER REPORTS TESTS SHOW THAT E85 ETHANOL OFFERS CLEANER EMISSIONS-BUT
POORER FUEL ECONOMY

E85 fuel is unlikely to fill more than a small percentage of U.S. energy needs
October 2006 issue cover

October 2006 Issue

YONKERS, NY - Tests and an investigation by Consumer Reports conclude that E85
ethanol will cost consumers more money than gasoline and that there are
concerns about whether the government's support of flexible fuel vehicles is
really helping the U.S. achieve energy independence.

Findings from CR's special report include:

* E85, which is 85 percent ethanol, emits less smog-producing pollutants
than gasoline, but provides fewer miles per gallon, costs more, and is hard to
find outside the Midwest.
* Government support for flexible-fuel vehicles, which can run on either
E85 or gasoline, is indirectly causing more gasoline consumption rather than
less.
* Blended with gasoline, ethanol has the potential to fill a significant
minority of future U.S. transportation fuel needs.

To see how E85 ethanol stacks up against gasoline, Consumer Reports put one of
its test vehicles, a 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe Flexible-Fuel Vehicle (FFV) through
an array of fuel economy, acceleration, and emissions tests.

Overall fuel economy on the Tahoe dropped from an already low 14 mpg overall
to 10. In highway driving, gas mileage decreased from 21 to 15 mpg; in city
driving, it dropped from 9 mpg to 7. You could expect a similar decrease in
gas mileage in any current flex fuel vehicle because ethanol has a lower
energy content than gasoline-75,670 British thermal units (BTUs) per gallon
instead of 115,400 for gasoline, according to the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration. As a result, you have to burn more fuel to generate the
same amount of energy.

With the retail pump price of E85 averaging $2.91 per gallon in August,
according to the Oil Price Information Service, a 27 percent fuel-economy
penalty means drivers would have paid an average of $3.99 for the energy
equivalent of a gallon of gasoline.

When Consumer Reports calculated the Tahoe's driving range, it found that it
decreased to about 300 miles on a full tank of E85 compared with about 440 on
gasoline. So, motorists using E85 would have to fill up more often.

Most drivers in the country have no access to E85, even if they want it,
because it is primarily sold in the upper Midwest; most of the ethanol in the
U.S. is made from corn, and that's where the cornfields and ethanol production
facilities are located. There are only about 800 gas stations-out of 176,000
nationwide-that sell E85 to the public.

When Consumer Reports took its Tahoe to a state-certified emissions-test
facility in Connecticut and had a standard emissions test performed, it found
a significant decrease in smog-forming oxides of nitrogen when using E85.

Despite the scarcity of E85, the Big Three domestic auto manufacturers have
built more than 5 million FFVs since the late '90s, and that number will
increase by about 1 million this year.

A strong motivation for that is that the government credits FFVs that burn E85
with about two-thirds more fuel economy than they actually get using gasoline,
even though the vast majority may never run on E85. This allows automakers to
build more large, gas-guzzling vehicles than they otherwise could under
Corporate Average Fuel Economy rules. As a result, these credits have
increased annual U.S. gasoline consumption by about 1 percent, or 1.2 billion
gallons, according to a 2005 study by the Union for Concerned Scientists.

From an alternative-energy perspective, it doesn't matter whether ethanol is
blended as E85 or in lower mixes such as E10 (a 10/90 ethanol/gasoline
mixture) that all cars can burn; a given amount of ethanol still goes just as
far in reducing demand for gasoline. Experts agree that the maximum amount of
ethanol you can get from corn in the U.S. is about 15 billion gallons. But
scientists are working on producing ethanol from other plant material, called
cellulose, which could increase this capacity by as much as 45 billion
gallons. (For comparison's sake, the U.S. burned 140 billion gallons of
gasoline in 2005.)

The important backdrop to the ethanol debate, of course, is that petroleum is
a finite resource that's rapidly being depleted. Government scientists are
planning for a day when world oil production peaks and begins to slow. They
say the country must begin planning for alternatives 20 years before that
peak. Today ethanol is receiving their attention because it requires fewer
technological breakthroughs and less infrastructure development than batteries
or fuel cells, and by including cellulose, its capacity can exceed that of
biodiesel.
=====
HankL's note:
I am totally convinced ethanol is a 'precious resource' that the USA can use to improve both MPG and power. See this post:

http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_746747/tm.htm

for the way it should be done.
The present practice of making ethanol and either blending 10% of it into gasoline or making E85 is a tremendously wasteful 'boondoggle' created by Archers-Daniel-Midland company, Cargill company, Senator Bob Dole and Sen Chuck Grassley.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2008, 08:37 AM
HankL HankL is offline
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Default RE: E85 gas or regular gas....

a last thought
is that someone without a flex-fuel Dodge
who is willing to experiment
would probably find at the drag strip
that a mix of
50% E85 and 50 93 octane premium gasoline
would probably give better acceleration improvements
beyond what Consumers Reports finds above

best Horsepower is at a fuel ratio
of around 0.87
of "exact match" (called Stoichiometric)

non flex fuel Dodge Ram V8s are around 0.78 stoichiometric
which is too rich for maximum horsepower
when at full throttle

adding the extra oxygen that comes along naturally in the ethanol
means that E85 can be used to 'hack' your fuel ratio
and move it closer to 0.87
on a temporary basis

the improvement in acceleration
is probably much more than any expensive CAI
gives

and you are not breaking the law
as full throttle engine operation is still unregulated for pollution by EPA
under the "loophole" protected by Michigan Representative John Dingell
called
'passing power safety exemption'

you probably would be going faster
with less pollution
with a 50% E85 mix
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:37 AM
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