Which winch?
#1
Which winch?
See what i did there..lol
Ok so i tried searching and went through a few pages here but nothing concrete.. I recently bought a 06 Ram 1500 megacab 4x4 and i have some old toys from my 01 that I'm trying to see what to keep. One of which is my cheapo winch. its one of those chinese electric winches "tuff stuff" "badlands"(but really the same ****ty winch). Its rated 12k and got the job done. But I'm wondering if, at 8500, is the new Ram to big for the toy winch?
The question I'm getting at, whether I keep it or not, is what is the rule when picking a winch?
Ok so i tried searching and went through a few pages here but nothing concrete.. I recently bought a 06 Ram 1500 megacab 4x4 and i have some old toys from my 01 that I'm trying to see what to keep. One of which is my cheapo winch. its one of those chinese electric winches "tuff stuff" "badlands"(but really the same ****ty winch). Its rated 12k and got the job done. But I'm wondering if, at 8500, is the new Ram to big for the toy winch?
The question I'm getting at, whether I keep it or not, is what is the rule when picking a winch?
#2
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Georgia/East Florida
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The Chinese winches are fine - for very occasional use. Their biggest drawback vs. ones from Warn or Ramsey would be speed and duty cycle. I've replaced many solenoids in Tuff Stuff, Harbor Freight and Smittybilt winches after just one really heavy pull. I've owned three Warn winches over the last 20+ years, still have one - the other two I've sold still working flawlessly without anything ever being replaced except cables and hooks...
#3
The Chinese winches are fine - for very occasional use. Their biggest drawback vs. ones from Warn or Ramsey would be speed and duty cycle. I've replaced many solenoids in Tuff Stuff, Harbor Freight and Smittybilt winches after just one really heavy pull. I've owned three Warn winches over the last 20+ years, still have one - the other two I've sold still working flawlessly without anything ever being replaced except cables and hooks...
#7
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#9
There's a LOT of really useful vehicle recovery information here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
For brevity, here's the important part:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
For brevity, here's the important part:
Originally Posted by BillaVista
Calculating the force of a recovery operation:
A pull of 1/10 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a hard, level surface.
A pull of 2/3 LW will be required to move if the wheels cannot rotate (as if the brakes were fully applied), the pull required to overcome the resistance (drag) the truck id 2/3 or 67% of the LW. Damage resistance includes surface resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Stuck (mire) resistance:
A pull of 100% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to a depth of the sidewall on the tires.
Final figure:
Example:
My trail rig fully kitted out weighs in at 5000 lbs. I get stuck down a rock ravine that's about 45 degrees steep, and there are big rocks up to the frame hanging it up. Rolling resistance is 5000lbs x 3 + (5000 x 0.75) = 18,750 lbs. As you can see, this is significantly more than the 5000lbs x 1.5 - 7500lbs the manufacturers would have you believe. You may be wondering how one could ever possibly recover the vehicle in this example, given that the largest commercially available 4x4 recovery winch is 15000 lbs and that most are in the 8-9000lb range. The answer is by using multi-line rigging, which we shall explore in a moment.
This is a critical step in both the conduct of a winch recovery (because you need to be absolutely sure that EVERY single piece of equipment used in the task is strong enough and will not fail and thereby endanger life and limb), and in the selection/purchase and decision to use a piece of recovery equipment. It is a calculation where, quite frankly, the manufacturer's recommendations are woefully inadequate. Why? Simply because if they let you in on how large the forces really are, it would leave you realizing that they are unable to economically produce a winch of sufficient capacity in anything resembling a small, light, or economical enough package. They get away with it, because, as I said, there are *******ly no regulations or standards governing the industry. I'm not saying all 4x4 winches are inadequate, dangerous, or useless. But I am saying that the forces involved are often much greater than the manufacturer's would have you believe, and you will be far more capable and SAFER if you approach your 4x4 recovery KNOWING THIS, and knowing the real numbers. Realize, that for reasons of practicality and economics, your 4x4 recovery equipment is almost certainly undersized.....you can still do the job, using the correct techniques, but you will be much SAFER if you keep this in mind. Enough of the pre-amble.
Most, if not all, winch manufacturers will tell you to select a winch based on 1.5 times the gross vehicle weight. This often leads to less than satisfactory results for 2 reasons:
1) Most people are terrible at actually estimating the gross weight of their rig as it sits on the trail, full of gas, tools, equipment, food, camping gear, people, the dog...everything. Heck, in some cases the real figure can actually exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. Simple advice here - either err WAY on the heavy side, or get your rig weighed in trail trim.
2) More importantly, the "effective weight" of a "stuck" 4x4 is very often FAR more than 1.5 times the GVW. The following data on how to more accurately estimate the "effective weight", is taken from the world of professional heavy recovery - the guys that recover Tractor-trailers that have flipped on their side for instance, as well as U.S., Canadian, and UK Military recovery manuals.
Once you have accurately estimated or measured the trucks loaded weight (LW) you can calculate the resistance to be overcome in any recovery situation (this is commonly known as the ROLLING resistance). There are 4 types of resistance that must be accounted for to accurately assess the resistance that must be overcome. These are surface resistance, damage resistance, mire (stuck) resistance and grade (slope) resistance. Calculate them all as follows:
Surface resistance:A pull of 1/10 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a hard, level surface.
A pull of 1/3 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a softer surface, such as grass or gravel.
Damage resistance:A pull of 2/3 LW will be required to move if the wheels cannot rotate (as if the brakes were fully applied), the pull required to overcome the resistance (drag) the truck id 2/3 or 67% of the LW. Damage resistance includes surface resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Stuck (mire) resistance:
A pull of 100% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to a depth of the sidewall on the tires.
A pull of 200% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the hubs.
A pull of 300% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the frame..
Mire resistance includes damage resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Grade (slope) resistance:
Grade (slope) resistance:
Upgrade (vehicle has to be recovered up a slope or grade)
- 15 degrees - add 25% of LW
- 30 degrees - add 50% of LW
- 45 degrees - add 75% of LW
Vehicle recovery on level ground
- no correction
Downgrade (vehicle has to be recovered down a slope or grade)
- 15 degrees - subtract 25% of LW
- 30 degrees - subtract 50% of LW
- 45 degrees - subtract 75% of LW
Final figure:
Add surface or damage or mire resistance and grade resistance, and this is your final figure or rolling resistance. This is the amount of pull the winch must apply in order to recover the stuck vehicle.
Example:
My trail rig fully kitted out weighs in at 5000 lbs. I get stuck down a rock ravine that's about 45 degrees steep, and there are big rocks up to the frame hanging it up. Rolling resistance is 5000lbs x 3 + (5000 x 0.75) = 18,750 lbs. As you can see, this is significantly more than the 5000lbs x 1.5 - 7500lbs the manufacturers would have you believe. You may be wondering how one could ever possibly recover the vehicle in this example, given that the largest commercially available 4x4 recovery winch is 15000 lbs and that most are in the 8-9000lb range. The answer is by using multi-line rigging, which we shall explore in a moment.