3rd Gen Ram Tech2002-2008 Rams: This section is for TECHNICAL discussions only, that involve the 2002 through 2008 Rams Rams. For any non-tech discussions, please direct your attention to the "General discussion/NON-tech" sub sections.
I've got a terrible knock that sounds to to me like a lifter. Is anyone else getting anything like this? Dealer claims it is injector noise, but I know better. Anybody had this problem and been able to get it resolved?
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2004 YELLOW Quad Cab. Sport Appearance.
To answer your question yes, the TICK noise your describing is normal. It is caused by the design of the valve train. All teh hemi's will do it after about 3-5K miles or less if driven hard. It is nothing to worry about.
I even listened to a few 1970 1971 challengers with the all mighty 426 HEMI. The ticking noise in those are even louder!!!
Just take it as the call of the HEMI.[:@]
No Replacement For Displacement
I had the lifters replaced in my 03 hemi at 35000 mi. resently. this was not the hemi tick,much noiser.some and went on more and more and the check eng. light came on .seems ok now but im allways thinking it will come back,hopefully not .
Chrysler has never really said much about the design of the hydraulic roller lifters used in the 5.7 Hemi.
Apparently some Chrysler engineers told David Vizard (see link below) that they had tested these lifters for 'anti-pump-up' at rpms up to 6200 rpm. A normal hyd lifter won't go that high without mods, so the Hemi lifters must have some internal mods.
If Chrysler made their Hemi lifters 'Rhoads Style' with internal bleed down, that would also potentially explain how an engine with a torque max at 4200 could still produce 330 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm and 300 ft-lbs at a (hard to believe) 1200 rpm.
See how the torque curve 'flips upward' in the 1200-1600 rpm range. That is odd, and might be due to lifter bleed off that is designed in to the lifters.
If the Hemi lifters are 'bleed down' designs, and if the quality control at their manufacturer is not superb - or if new truck customers are 'ruining' the hydraulic lifters by running them to 6400+ rpm on engines that have only a few miles on them - then it might be a 'root cause' of the Hemi tick.
If the Hyd Lifters collapse too much,
you would expect slack in the valvetrain.
Slack in the valvetrain would lead to
broken valve springs,
bad valve seats, etc
Other posts in forums have talked about the manual's call for 5W-20 oil in the 5.7 Hemi. A low viscosity, high film strength oil is a sign that someone is trying to deal with a 'tricky' hydraulic lifter requirement for lubrication. The narrow range of 5 to 20 is another sign that 'controlled leakage bleed off' must lie within a close range to something to work properly.
Chrysler has messed up on hydraulic lifters before, their first roller lifters in the late 1980's pre-Magnum 'roller' 318 had chrome plating that flaked off and the staking on the roller axle ends was not consistent.
What are the 'real world' implications of this?
1. Try to buy a Hemi with almost no miles on the odometer - then break it in gently yourself for the first 3000 miles with several oil changes to flush out small particles. No need to change the filter, just change the oil, perhaps every 500 miles. Don't used old fashioned ideas about how to break in an engine that was only valid back in the days of flat tappet lifters. Consider custom ordering a truck and tell the dealer you expect single digit mileage on the odometer when it arrives.
2. Pay close attention to the oil you use. Watch your oil pressures closely.
3. If problems develop in the valve train, always insist the hydraulic roller lifters be replaced too, no matter what BS the dealership throws at you.
4. Insist that all 8 cylinders valvetrain be brought up to new, not just the one failed cylinder.
5. Learn about Small Claims Court rules for your State. DaimlerChrysler is afraid of Small Claims Court because they almost always lose against a well prepared customer. Print out the Popular Hot Rodding article and be prepared to explain to the judge how this small part caused these high $ repairs and lost resale values. Know your state's Lemon Law too.
6. Don't even be the least bit bashfull about insisting that DC make your Hemi right and re-imburse you for expenses. DC top brass have admitted to Wall Street bigwigs that the 5.7 Hemi has been the 'Profit Machine' that has made them oodles of money. It costs DC less money to make a 5.7 Hemi than a 4.7V8 but they charge a $800 premium! The German honchos at DaimlerChrysler reached back into the American engineered Hemi 426 past glory days and pulled their chestnuts out of today's fire. Have they sent the old retired Chrysler engineers (like those profiled in this month's Hot Rod Magazine) any bonus checks to go with their pensions? I bet not.
I'm a dealer tech, and we have an unofficial "tick kit" that fixes 90% of the engine noise. All engines have natural noises, however, some noises aren't normal. Go to your dealer and have the tech review the star bullitens for the tick. It's most likely the exhaust valves. The new revised ones have stems +.001" in diameter to correct the noise. Be prepaired to leave the truck a few days, as the repair involves removing your cylinder heads.
When you say 'knock', is it an actual knock, or just a 'tick tick tick'? As stated, the 'tick' is farily normal, but a knock isn't and should be looked at. It's hard to describe things online such as sounds, but a knock and a tick are two different things.
I know this is going to sound horrible... But when I got the truck, for the first 500 miles, I drove it half way between "normal" and "punk *** kid with a new truck" and now'days I drive it pretty conservatively, unless someone is going very slow in front of me (like 10mph under the speed limit) or if someone cuts me off... Then I can't help but pulling out and pass them WOT... Also, I haven't had the time or the money to get my oil changed in the last 6000miles... And I haven't had any problems with ticking. I also took my truck offroad with only a few hundred miles on it... I've broken my front bumper twice, and I just had the transfer case and differential replaced. I've scraped up my rims on curbs a few times, although it honestly was never my fault. I admit fault when it's something I did. Like blowing up the t-case and dif. hehe. But you live and learn from your mistakes.
After all that being said, I wash my truck about every second day and I have a power polisher, I also haven't gone off-road with it since that very first time, and since my warranty work, I have become very good friends with a few people at my local dealership. Dealing with them in the past has been a pain in the ***... But I got to know one of the service writers and I hooked him up with a few free goodies from where I work, and I have had everything wrong with this truck fixed under warranty...
As rough as I was to this truck when I first got it, it's in perfect condition today, and it's tougher and faster than any other dodge I've put it up against. I recently bought a 17,000lb break strength tow rope so that when I see someone else stuck in the ditch this winter, I'll be nice and pull them out.
What goes around comes around, honestly.
A few years ago I was on the way to my (now ex) wifes house it was about a 4 hour trip... It was in the middle of one of our "famous canadian winters" lol and it was about -50c which is about -60F and I had to take a **** really bad. Well, I have a really bad reputation for putting vehicles into ditches (which is one of the reasons I said my new truck HAD to be a 4x4) lol anyways... I was pulling over to the shoulder of the road very very very cautiously so I could take a ****... Well wouldn't you know it, I hit a patch of black ice and put my FWD car into the ditch. I watched hundreds of people drive by as I was freezing my *** off... My engine died and I had no road-side emergency kit, nor a cell phone... I sat in the car trying to keep warm with no heat, after about an hour I literally started to cry because 1 hour in -50C/-60F weather with nobody offering help, I honestly thought I might die... (I was about 18 at the time) and finally a little old lady and her husband on their way home from bingo at 1am stopped and offered me some help. The had a farm about 3 miles away, so they went home and got their old beast of a farm truck and towed me out...
Every time I am on that stretch of highway I stop and pay them a visit and say thank you.
Last year I pulled 2 people out of the ditch with my 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 RC SB 2WD V6...
They are =P I tow people out all the time. I never accept money either, unless their morons with 4x4 SUV's who are like "Well I was only going 150KM/H! and its 4x4 why did it spin out?" Then I'll sometimes charge them, and I either just use it to buy gas, or donate it to like salvation army.
Blue 2003 Quad Cab 4x4 1500 Hemi Ram SLT