Hey guys i have a huge problem i can not figure out why my cel and my battery light are on.. they come on and stay on all the time and some times they will go off for a split secound and the car runs great and my lights and everything get nice and bright but then they come right back on again and stay on. This is driving me nutz as i have a baby on the way and need my car in good working order. i have pulled the codes from the pcm and i have the codes of 44 then 22 then 23. i replaced the coolant temp sensor and cleaned the iac sensor.. i dont even know what the 44 means i know what the books say but that is no help for meim lost.. my car is acting as there is a drain or something on my electrical system at all times. and when i replaced the sensor it still says it is bad i have re set the computer and it did nothing.. this is what has beeen done to the car. i replaced all plugs wires Dist and cap an button of course the coolant temp sensor. i just dont know what it could be? has anyone had this problem before the codes really have me lost.. please help

Thanx in adavance

oh its a 1995 dodge avenger es 2.5, if you need any more info on anything about it let me know..

 

Welcome to DF Josef. I hope the small bunch of us can help.

It sounds like an alternator or PCM issue. I say that because your battery light means that your car is having a charging issue and a weak power supply means everything in car will go haywire!. Since the voltage regulator is in the PCM you may need to get that checked, but definitely get your alternator checked for voltage output and amperage output.
One more thing, check the two fusible links in the fusebox in the engine bay, one may be marked battery (probably not though) but the other one is definitely marked alternator and the one right next to it is going to be the battery fuse. Those two are bolted down, make sure that they are on there tight and make sure they are not blown. Next check the alternator and make sure the + terminal wire isn't loose or that it came off and make sure that the PCMs plug is on securely. If all checks out good and if you can, take your car to have the alternator checked for it's output, unless you have a digital multimeter handy and know how to check it yourself...just don't check for amperage unless you have the correct multimeter rated up to 120 amps or you will fry the wires on the wrong multimeters or your hand. Let us know what you find.
I forgot to mention that if alternator is good then the PCM may be bad since the voltage regulator is in there and those are the main components of your charging system (and an ASD relay and ignition switch). On your firewall, just for poops and giggles, swap the 3 or four relays around before you head out to autozone or any battery shop.

 

Ok silver will do i knew you would be the one to give advise i have been searching reading everyhting i could about this car and i have seen you on a buch so hope you can help me.. anyway i am going out now to see what i can do with the relays i am almost positive the battery is good and also the alternator. ill let you know in a few check back..


Joe

 

Ok thoses did not do anything at all. battery is good alt is good now im thinking my pcm is to blame i wish i had one i could swap to see what happens before buying ya know... If there is a way to test any further let me know ihave been tinkering with this dang thing for a lil while now and havent heard anything about what i am haveing problems with lol.. tho my car does do the limp in mode just about every day when you first start it up until it gets to the right temp then its fine. ummm.. im trying to think of all the crazy stuff it does to me so you will know what i am saying.. it also has a bad bad idle problem like 1k rpm to 200 rpm and it even does it driving it flukuates really bad, im not really sure what is making it do this but boyyy its killing me lol. thanx all keep throwing me things to check i would rather do it then a shop yuou know


Joe

 

Check the PCM connector and make sure that it is nice and secure too.
When you open the door(s) does the interior light come on all the time? Tell me more about this intermitten electrical power surging. Does the battery light come on every so often, all the time intermittenly, just stays on? Do you have idle issues when the battery light lights up or is that a seperate issue? I'm looking more towards the PCM at this point to be honest with you, though it would be easier if you were next door, lol. I just went through a charging issue myself and it would do some of what you described. HP was lacking, interior lighting wasn't working, idle just wasn't idling. My alternator has the voltage regulator built into it so that was easy enough. My alternator and battery fuse also lost connection....the battery applies voltage to the alternator when the car is just started (it really gets battery power at all times) and keeps voltage on it through out the run, it also tells your PCM (voltage regulator) how much power the battery has at all times and that's how the voltage regulator (PCM) knows when to apply a charge. The battery voltage should be around 12.5-ish with the car off and no load and it should be around 14-15ish volts when the car is running (both fuses on both bolts and on both sides), inside the cabin will be around 13.5 volts and varying while driving, stopping, and so forth. If you take out the cig lighter and measure voltage across the + and - you should read 13.5 volts while the car is idling, if not, your alternator isn't getting the signal to the battery or your battery isn't getting a signal or power from the alternator. Take the car to autozone and have them check voltage and amperage (they have an inductive pickup ammeter). This will help them diagnose for you whether or not your battery is getting charged. I would physically check those two fuses though, I don't mean looking to make sure that the strip in the middle isn't broke. I mean, for you to check voltage on both bolts, on both sides. Or even if you have a test light, that works too (you just don't get voltage numbers). I say exhaust that area of ideas before going onto the PCM because it's free and the PCM, even a used one from a junk yard can cost a pretty penny. I also suggest following the book on how to check your alternator and whether or not it's charging the battery...it's under "Charging System" in the index and page 2-9 in Chiltons and 5-10 in the Haynes manual. Anyway, I know I'm being repetitive but I can't stress enough that without proper voltage, our cars will not run it' best and you will get all sorts of false symptoms. Why? Because all the sensors that are starved for power are acting as if they are bad and thus, they give false symptoms. With the battery light illuminating, there's only one reason why that would come on..on top of the other issues, it brings me to believe it's your charging system.
The charging system is very basic and is limited to the alternator, charge indicator light, battery, PCM, ASD relay, fusible link(s), and then the wiring to each component (basic wiring also, nothing too complicated). In either book, test your charging system as shown and let me know what the scoop is.

For the limp mode thing, check your tranny fluid and make sure that there aren't any metal flakes in it and that it isn't a dark color. It should be pink and very much see through. Check the level both cold and warmed up. Other than that, if the EATX relay isn't getting power, you will go into limp mode when it's starved for it....lol, I know, back on the charging system thing again. Ok, I'll stop before I write even more of a book of a post.

 

John,


ok im going to try and explane this to you the best way i can on how she acts.
first thing in the mourning day or night whenever i start her for the first time after sitting its kinda hard to start you have to rev her up and gettter going like a old car. after that if you sit for bout a min or so she'll die out on you starts right back up.. rev it up and away you go now when she starts up every day the check engine light comes on and then the battery lights appears and they both stay on all the time. now the lights will just pop off all the sudden stay off for 2 maybe 3 secs and come back on the check engine light first and then the battery light. They will do this sum times once a day or 50 times a day. And when the lights "cel bat" go off my head lights and everything is perfect it runs great and everything just for them few secs... and i am noticing my exhaust smell is kinda yukie smelling too like sorda rich.. ok thats about how things happen with her. i am noticing also when it gets a lil colder out side the lights go on and off more frequint.

ok now i have checked the post and everything with a light i dont know where my multi is right now and there is power going to both on both sides. i have checked the pcm harrness and they are both tight and in there no boken prongs i dont beleave ether. if you would like i can take a short video with my camra and send you so you coul;d watch the rpms and see what i mean im sure i could get this thing to act up for you lol.. let me know and thank you so much for helping me this far no one else ever said anything really thanx

Joe

 

Ok, so none of the other lights like the gauge cluster, entry lights or headlights dim when those two dash lights come on then correct?
If so, then it's your motor idle that is causing the warning lights to illuminate, correct?
While stopped, you say that your idle surges from 1K to 200 RPM and back correct? What does your car do while at speed?

 

I’m not sure about the lights, but the symptoms reminded me my problem! I had the same problem a year ago, tried everything, in the end it was my EGR valve that was causing problems! So you might want to check yours, cause sometimes it would get sticky and would turn on the engine light (misfire). That’s all I can say!
Cheers

 

ok everything that happens when she is idling happens when she is running down the road, All of the lights on or around the car dim and you know last night i was checking my interrior lights out and they dont work all the time ether like you said. when the cel and bat lights come on everything electrical on the car loses power, and when they go off the power comes back but remember they come right back on allways, OH YEa another thing i forgot about my radiator fan 'not ac fan' comes on when the lights come on so my fan is running all the time cold or hot the fan is running. I think the car thinks it is running in hot mode like she is allready warmed up sound bout right? cause when it is all warm it really dont act as stupid. if y ou need anything else let me know i will make a video like i said to show you right now il be back in a lil bit lol thanx guys..


joe

 

ok i have a video made and it wroked great lol the dang thing did just what i wanted it too.. i can not attach it so if you could give me an email address or a yahoo id i can send it too you.. thanx again

Joe