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So, here are the two water pumps...pre 70 and post. I guess the extra bolts off the ears are for accessory brackets. The Lower Radiator Hose is on the wrong side, but I guess with some careful routing of hose I can get it there. For $20 on Rock Auto worth a try you think?
Having a hard time finding the right pulley for a pre-70 318. Several ebay sales but they list them for years 67 to past 70 which can't be right...surely the pulley changed with the water pump, right?
Last edited by robertmee; Jul 7, 2016 at 10:12 AM.
Look at the extender....Looks like the snout of a post 70 LA water pump? What was that for?
Also odd that it lists cross from 65 to 72, when the pumps changed in 70. I called them and really helpful...he's going to look up in his old parts books to see if he can find any more info.
Last edited by robertmee; Jul 7, 2016 at 10:25 AM.
Thanks guys for all the help and research....I think about every Dak expert has chimed in and is helping at this point and that's great! Hopefully a mystery we can solve. I'll respond to the various posts through the night with what I know:
On the 87 yes that's the same LA configuration on my 90...the 87 and my setup use the same water pump. Problem is as Ralph said the V8 with that long water pump snout hits the radiator.
On the cast iron water pump I've seen that in a couple of other old threads on other sites. I believe those pumps were pre 1970. There was an issue and I can't recall now...maybe no heater hose connection? I'll have to do some more research as to why I gave up on that option so quickly.
In regards to previous swaps being successful every one that I've found used a post 93 magnum engine. The only LA setup I've found similar is Siggies...it's in the faq. And he had the exact same problem. I emailed Siggie and his solution was a custom radiator recessed into the core. I've emailed a few other people I found on other sites and YouTube that did a swap but no responses.
When I look at the picture of your 5.9 in comparison to the Shelby, or 93Ragtop's V6, your crate engine's water pump snout seems much longer, out past the crank pulley. It looks like 93Ragtop's motor and the Shelby are using the same components. Are you saying that the pump your '90 V6 had originally has the same snout length as the one on your 5.9? I can't stop thinking that the pump snout problem lies with the one on your 5.9.
When I look at the picture of your 5.9 in comparison to the Shelby, or 93Ragtop's V6, your crate engine's water pump snout seems much longer, out past the crank pulley. It looks like 93Ragtop's motor and the Shelby are using the same components. Are you saying that the pump your '90 V6 had originally has the same snout length as the one on your 5.9? I can't stop thinking that the pump snout problem lies with the one on your 5.9.
Yes, they are exactly the same. That pump in my picture didn't come with the crate 360. It's a replacement pump from a 90 V6 from rock auto The pump that was on the crate, was painted and crappy, so I bought a new one. They are exactly the same as all LA water pumps are. It may look longer from the picture angle, but it's the same as was originally on a V6. The 89 shelby uses the same as mine, as does Ragged's 87. From all my research, the LA water pumps prior to 70 were short, the ones from 70 until now were long, and the magnum water pumps were short again. There are no short LA post 70 water pumps. The reason Ragged's looks shorter is because he has a two groove water pump pulley and makes it look shallower. But it's the same depth as my 1 grrove, and lines up the same with the inner groove of the crank pulley. The only confusing question is on 90 and 91 shelby's...rock auto has a different shorter pump, but it's a magnum style that rotates the opposite so I think it's just in error on rock auto. I'm betting the 90's and 91's used the same LA water pump, so the question is how did they fit it inside the radiator?
Last edited by robertmee; Jul 7, 2016 at 01:50 PM.
When I look at the picture of your 5.9 in comparison to the Shelby, or 93Ragtop's V6, your crate engine's water pump snout seems much longer, out past the crank pulley. It looks like 93Ragtop's motor and the Shelby are using the same components. Are you saying that the pump your '90 V6 had originally has the same snout length as the one on your 5.9? I can't stop thinking that the pump snout problem lies with the one on your 5.9.
I agree!! If you notice, the pulley looks shorter then yours. If there are any measurements from point to point I can help you with, let me know
FWIW I would not think that dodge redesigned the accessory drives just for the limited number of shelbys that were built. But that is just my opinion.
Yes, they are exactly the same. That pump in my picture didn't come with the crate 360. It's a replacement pump from a 90 V6 from rock auto The pump that was on the crate, was painted and crappy, so I bought a new one. They are exactly the same as all LA water pumps are. It may look longer from the picture angle, but it's the same as was originally on a V6. The 89 shelby uses the same as mine, as does Ragged's 87. From all my research, the LA water pumps prior to 70 were short, the ones from 70 until now were long, and the magnum water pumps were short again. There are no short LA post 70 water pumps. The reason Ragged's looks shorter is because he has a two groove water pump pulley and makes it look shallower. But it's the same depth as my 1 grrove, and lines up the same with the inner groove of the crank pulley. The only confusing question is on 90 and 91 shelby's...rock auto has a different shorter pump, but it's a magnum style that rotates the opposite so I think it's just in error on rock auto. I'm betting the 90's and 91's used the same LA water pump, so the question is how did they fit it inside the radiator?
Does your engine look like it could move back any? Again, I can send you pictures of the back side of mine, or we could measure from say the distributor center to firewall and see if maybe the mounts are throwing you forward.
IMO though, if its setting back as far as it orig. did, it has to be your accessory drive is longer
I don't think so....look closer. Your inside pulley is on the 3rd groove of the crank, mine is on the 1st. I believe this is because my pulley well is deeper...see how much of his pump snout is exposed? Plus yours has the little nose on the pulley, mine is flush, so that's deceptive. Much less of my pump snout is exposed. From the timing cover to the end of the pulley is exactly the same, I'll bet.
The only way to tell is if we could impose on 93 Ragtop to take some measurements. I would like to know:
From front of block to front of timing cover (to see if any differences in timing cover thickness)
From front of timing cover to front nose of pulley
From front of timing cover to 1st pulley groove (just to see if difference in belting)
From back of pulley to front of pulley (to see difference if any in pulley thickness)
From front of Harmonic to the groove used for the water pump on the crank
That would tell us alot
I'm off to measure mine
Last edited by robertmee; Jul 7, 2016 at 03:24 PM.
The pump that was on the crate, was painted and crappy, so I bought a new one. They are exactly the same as all LA water pumps are. It may look longer from the picture angle, but it's the same as was originally on a V6. The 89 shelby uses the same as mine, as does Ragged's 87. From all my research, the LA water pumps prior to 70 were short, the ones from 70 until now were long, and the magnum water pumps were short again. There are no short LA post 70 water pumps. The reason Ragged's looks shorter is because he has a two groove water pump pulley and makes it look shallower. But it's the same depth as my 1 grrove, and lines up the same with the inner groove of the crank pulley. The only confusing question is on 90 and 91 shelby's...rock auto has a different shorter pump, but it's a magnum style that rotates the opposite so I think it's just in error on rock auto. I'm betting the 90's and 91's used the same LA water pump, so the question is how did they fit it inside the radiator?
