Temp Problems and Bad Dealers
#1
07-10-2009, 09:18 PM
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Temp Problems and Bad Dealers
I have a 2003 Durango with a 4.7L, she's at 97K and runs great, up until about 2 months ago.
In my way home one night it started running hot, I turned on the heater and the temp dropped, not lot but enough to drive another 5 miles without being in the red.
Got it home and suspected the thermostat right off the bat just because I have seen this before in other cars. Changed it out with no problem the following morning, 9 days go by with some pretty heavy highway driving and it overheats again, wife says to take it to the dealer. Bring it there and they say that its getting clogged and that they are going to power flush it and add some acid to it to help with these clogs (NEVER heard that line before). Get it back and another week goes by, this time I drive nothing but highway for 6 days, starts overheating again so I take it back.
Now I'm told that my fan wiggles which tells them I need a water pump and they say there is air in the system so I need a head gasket. I changed the oil when I put in the thermostat, there is no antifreeze in that oil, is it not true that a bad head gasket will put antifreeze in the oil? So I get a little mad and tell him I don't believe him. Hanges up and calls me about 15 minutes later and says it's a bad rad. cap.
So, 5 weeks have passed, I have lost track of the amount of miles I have put on it since the last time in but today it started running hot again, funny thing is if I am sitting in the drive thru or at a light, the temp climbs, but if I'm running at speed limit, it's at normal operating temp.
So what do you all think this is? I'd appreciate any advice/input.
In my way home one night it started running hot, I turned on the heater and the temp dropped, not lot but enough to drive another 5 miles without being in the red.
Got it home and suspected the thermostat right off the bat just because I have seen this before in other cars. Changed it out with no problem the following morning, 9 days go by with some pretty heavy highway driving and it overheats again, wife says to take it to the dealer. Bring it there and they say that its getting clogged and that they are going to power flush it and add some acid to it to help with these clogs (NEVER heard that line before). Get it back and another week goes by, this time I drive nothing but highway for 6 days, starts overheating again so I take it back.
Now I'm told that my fan wiggles which tells them I need a water pump and they say there is air in the system so I need a head gasket. I changed the oil when I put in the thermostat, there is no antifreeze in that oil, is it not true that a bad head gasket will put antifreeze in the oil? So I get a little mad and tell him I don't believe him. Hanges up and calls me about 15 minutes later and says it's a bad rad. cap.
So, 5 weeks have passed, I have lost track of the amount of miles I have put on it since the last time in but today it started running hot again, funny thing is if I am sitting in the drive thru or at a light, the temp climbs, but if I'm running at speed limit, it's at normal operating temp.
So what do you all think this is? I'd appreciate any advice/input.
#3
07-10-2009, 09:43 PM
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#4
07-11-2009, 12:40 AM
Champion
Try to spin your fan when the truck is cold if it is not fairly stiff it sounds like a fan clutch. I have had this issue with a bad t-stat as well. It would only open partially causing it to not get enough water moving at idle but more than enough at highway speeds. I would definitely look at the t-stat again if it was an auto zone special I've had those crap out on me within a week. If you went with OEM or jet I wouldn't be as concerned.
#6
07-11-2009, 11:27 AM
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Okay, I got another question for you all here. In the past when I have started it and backed it out of my driveway I have heard this roar that I knew was the fan, I have not heard this lately, I hear the electric fan going nuts, but never the main fan, is that a sign the clutch is gone or something else?
#7
07-11-2009, 12:48 PM
All Star
Okay you have to burp these systems
If that was done proper there really is only 2 things left, (providing you already replaced t-stat that has a bleeder valve, burp hole)
Need a new radiator (clogged beyond cleaning)
New water pump
Far as blown head gasket no it always does not allow radiator fluid into the cylinder. how you would check for a bad head gasket is a compression leak down test. Shop can do this test pretty cheap labor or you can go buy a compression tester and do it yourself, not hard at all to do.
When you drain a cooling system you have basically added LOTS and LOTS of air to it. Just like a hydraulic brake system, air in a cooling system is BAD (we'll get into brake system bleeding in a later article). One of the first things is filling it correctly, and getting all the air out when filling it. All cooling systems have a restriction system built in them, it's called a thermostat. When filling the system the stat wolnt allow the coolant past it till it gets hot and opens (the reason it got hot after your first test ride). Now something I've noticed on most newer factory thermostats is a bleeder valve, most replacement stats don't have this but, it's easy to add. All you have to do is drill one or two 1/8" holes in the flange of the stat. These small holes wolnt mess up the way the system cools, just make it easier to fill.
TYPES OF COOLING SYSTEMS
There are basically two types of cooling systems, the so called OPEN and so called CLOSED. The OPEN system is identified as having a pressure/fill cap on the radiator. The closed has the pressure/fill cap located somewhere else in the system, commonly a "anti-aeration bottle", which most people call a pressure bottle and is usually located near the rear of the engine compartment on the firewall. The "CLOSED" style systems are becoming popular due to space constraints in newer cars.
Both systems works pretty much the same with the "OPEN" system using the radiator it's self for anti-aeration. A little about anti-aeration systems. Basically this is the highest point in the system, and any air will eventually find it's way to the highest point.
FILLING THE SYSTEM.
Make sure you are working a fairly level surface.
CLOSED SYSTEM
OK, you got the new rad in, your vented thermostat installed, and the lower hose hooked up and the clamps tightened down. STOP, don't tighten down that upper hose just yet. Put it on the rad and twist it around so the engine end of the hose is pointing UP, now snug the clamp on the rad just a little, and find a funnel that fits in the open end of the upper hose. That's where you're gonna start filling the system from. Remove the cap from the pressure bottle, and start pouring the coolant in. Fill from the rad hose till coolant starts trickling from the thermostat housing (see what that vent did for ya), loosen the clamp on the rad and finish installing the upper hose. Now, get your jack and raise the rear about 6" (this makes sure the pres bottle is the HIGHEST point in the system). Continue filling the system at the bottle till it hits the COLD fill lines on the bottle. Fire it up, run it for 10 min to get the stat to open up, shut it off and top off the coolant, continue doing this till the the bottle stays full. Keep away from the bottle when it's running, if any air burps out it could spray some HOT coolant out of the bottle. Shut it off, put the cap on, lower it off the jack, and take it for a good test run to get it hot. Check the coolant level when you get home, it should be full.
NOTE: If you are working on an incline try to have the rear of the vehicle higher than the front.
OPEN SYSTEM
Well it's just a little different procedure for this system, here you want all the hoses connected and tight. Raise the front about 6" (this makes sure the radiator is the HIGHEST point in the system), and fill through the fill neck. You will hear the coolant gurgling as the air is pushed past the vent holes you drilled in the thermostat. When the rad gets full, wait a few min for the coolant to settle and fill it again. You don't want to fill it FULL, leave about 1/2" below the fill neck for anti-aeration. Start it up with the cap off and run it for 10 min to get the stat to open up, shut it off and top off the coolant, continue doing this till the the rad stays full (1/2" below the fill neck). Keep away from the opening when it's running, if any air burps out it could spray some HOT coolant out. Shut it off, put the cap on the rad, lower it off the jack, and take it for a good test run to get it hot.
NOTE: If you are working on an incline try to have the front of the vehicle higher than the rear.
I have been filling cooling systems this way for years and I usually don't have to go back to top them off them a few days later.
TYPES OF COOLING SYSTEMS
There are basically two types of cooling systems, the so called OPEN and so called CLOSED. The OPEN system is identified as having a pressure/fill cap on the radiator. The closed has the pressure/fill cap located somewhere else in the system, commonly a "anti-aeration bottle", which most people call a pressure bottle and is usually located near the rear of the engine compartment on the firewall. The "CLOSED" style systems are becoming popular due to space constraints in newer cars.
Both systems works pretty much the same with the "OPEN" system using the radiator it's self for anti-aeration. A little about anti-aeration systems. Basically this is the highest point in the system, and any air will eventually find it's way to the highest point.
FILLING THE SYSTEM.
Make sure you are working a fairly level surface.
CLOSED SYSTEM
OK, you got the new rad in, your vented thermostat installed, and the lower hose hooked up and the clamps tightened down. STOP, don't tighten down that upper hose just yet. Put it on the rad and twist it around so the engine end of the hose is pointing UP, now snug the clamp on the rad just a little, and find a funnel that fits in the open end of the upper hose. That's where you're gonna start filling the system from. Remove the cap from the pressure bottle, and start pouring the coolant in. Fill from the rad hose till coolant starts trickling from the thermostat housing (see what that vent did for ya), loosen the clamp on the rad and finish installing the upper hose. Now, get your jack and raise the rear about 6" (this makes sure the pres bottle is the HIGHEST point in the system). Continue filling the system at the bottle till it hits the COLD fill lines on the bottle. Fire it up, run it for 10 min to get the stat to open up, shut it off and top off the coolant, continue doing this till the the bottle stays full. Keep away from the bottle when it's running, if any air burps out it could spray some HOT coolant out of the bottle. Shut it off, put the cap on, lower it off the jack, and take it for a good test run to get it hot. Check the coolant level when you get home, it should be full.
NOTE: If you are working on an incline try to have the rear of the vehicle higher than the front.
OPEN SYSTEM
Well it's just a little different procedure for this system, here you want all the hoses connected and tight. Raise the front about 6" (this makes sure the radiator is the HIGHEST point in the system), and fill through the fill neck. You will hear the coolant gurgling as the air is pushed past the vent holes you drilled in the thermostat. When the rad gets full, wait a few min for the coolant to settle and fill it again. You don't want to fill it FULL, leave about 1/2" below the fill neck for anti-aeration. Start it up with the cap off and run it for 10 min to get the stat to open up, shut it off and top off the coolant, continue doing this till the the rad stays full (1/2" below the fill neck). Keep away from the opening when it's running, if any air burps out it could spray some HOT coolant out. Shut it off, put the cap on the rad, lower it off the jack, and take it for a good test run to get it hot.
NOTE: If you are working on an incline try to have the front of the vehicle higher than the rear.
I have been filling cooling systems this way for years and I usually don't have to go back to top them off them a few days later.
Need a new radiator (clogged beyond cleaning)
New water pump
Far as blown head gasket no it always does not allow radiator fluid into the cylinder. how you would check for a bad head gasket is a compression leak down test. Shop can do this test pretty cheap labor or you can go buy a compression tester and do it yourself, not hard at all to do.
Last edited by schusterjo; 07-11-2009 at 08:04 PM.
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#8
07-11-2009, 12:51 PM
All Star
#9
07-11-2009, 01:10 PM
You would think a common part like t'stat would be simple stupid..well the aftermarket ones are iffy even seen them without that hole, always use correct rating
Want to add an OLD OLD trick...when installing the NEW T'stat use a asprin to hold the valve somewhat open...it will let the coolant move and air purge during filling ...the hot coolant will soon disolve the pill...
Want to add an OLD OLD trick...when installing the NEW T'stat use a asprin to hold the valve somewhat open...it will let the coolant move and air purge during filling ...the hot coolant will soon disolve the pill...
#10
07-11-2009, 01:12 PM
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Location: Schaumburg, Il.
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The stat that I put in has the bleeder valve. After I changed the stat I had no problem with air in the system until a week of so later when it over heated again and I took it to the dealer and they flushed it and filled it.
This whole thing makes no sense. Why is it good for a day, a week and almost 2 months after being worked on?
This whole thing makes no sense. Why is it good for a day, a week and almost 2 months after being worked on?