Installed CAI kit...now truck runs hot????
#12
05-26-2011 | 04:37 PM
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I have been through 3 or 4 summers since I took the clutch fan off and have never had any problems...but anyway the last couple of days now the truck coolant temp has been fine...I recently drained and replaced the coolant with fresh stuff too and the radiator hoses are in good shape and nothing leaks...yes I did burp the system too 
. Anyhow, it seems to be ok for now..will keep an eye on it..wish I had a better place to run the intake though..I took off that little rubber peace on the passenger's side behind the front grill..but with that damn Trans cooler in the way and associated piping....can't pipe in any cooler air from there...oh well...it's all good I guess
. Anyhow, it seems to be ok for now..will keep an eye on it..wish I had a better place to run the intake though..I took off that little rubber peace on the passenger's side behind the front grill..but with that damn Trans cooler in the way and associated piping....can't pipe in any cooler air from there...oh well...it's all good I guess
#15
05-27-2011 | 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Riverton, UT
Hot air causes less compression slightly, however the hot air does a larger more important step, it increases the heat produced by the motor and with that the motor runs looser and actually heats the transmission up and makes it operate inefficiently and therefore loose torque and hp.
So with that said, the more volume and cooler air you can get into the motor the cooler the motor will run, and in turn the more HP and Torque you are going to get out of it.
As for actual numbers of compression changes with cold air intakes I have seen no quantifiable values, but considering boring a motor 20 over gives you .1 more compression I would dare to say it would be close to .05 more compression, however add a larger bore intake system and a home brew ram air and I would bet you would be in the .1 or even .2 over OEM which is a significant change.
I think we are also forgetting the charting on this, as usual when you place mod's on any motor (true mod's that work) you change the trajectory of the arch's on a dino test. To open at a normal (lets say 100 hp) and you put mod's on and now your opening at (lets say 150) then you have changed the arch and that is the power you actually feel, the top end numbers MIGHT improve but only slightly.
So with that said, the more volume and cooler air you can get into the motor the cooler the motor will run, and in turn the more HP and Torque you are going to get out of it.
As for actual numbers of compression changes with cold air intakes I have seen no quantifiable values, but considering boring a motor 20 over gives you .1 more compression I would dare to say it would be close to .05 more compression, however add a larger bore intake system and a home brew ram air and I would bet you would be in the .1 or even .2 over OEM which is a significant change.
I think we are also forgetting the charting on this, as usual when you place mod's on any motor (true mod's that work) you change the trajectory of the arch's on a dino test. To open at a normal (lets say 100 hp) and you put mod's on and now your opening at (lets say 150) then you have changed the arch and that is the power you actually feel, the top end numbers MIGHT improve but only slightly.
#16
05-27-2011 | 10:33 PM
THE ULTI-MOD
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Union NJ
lets get one thing straight, compression ratios CANNOT be changed by adding a cold air intake PERIOD. the compression ratio is a VOLUME RATIO, unless you change the volume of the cylinder you are not changing the compression ratio.
that said, your point about REAL, EFFECTIVE mods doing very little for max hp numbers is correct, all you really do is to change the hp/torque curves (more commonly known as the powerband) either up or down the RPM range(sure you will change the peak numbers a little bit, but not a whole lot and it wont be noticeable to most unless you spend some serious money).
Now the way that an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE from here onward) functions is by converting the chemical energy stored in the gasoline into heat energy, which pushes on a piston creating mechanical energy which drives your car. The more heat that gets converted (more fuel in most cases) the more power is available to extract from the cycle. This is why some cars come with an EGR system in place, this takes the hot exhaust gases and feeds some of them back into the intake with the intent of increasing the starting temperature of the cycle. This raised temperature means that you will need to create less heat in the combustion phase which means that less gas needs to be added to the cylinder to create the same power output, this also reduces the amount of heat thrown out through the exhaust to the environment. This yields a change in fuel economy for the better or (depending on the design) and increase in power without the associated decrease in fuel economy.
With this very very basic explanation of how the ICE power cycle works putting in colder air will require more fuel in order to create the same temperature change, however the power output will change because of this temperature change, usually in the upwards direction because of the greater temperature differential there is more energy that can be extracted. This is because the basic energy equation for the cycle is simply:
energy in (in the air + what is released from burning the gas) = energy out (mechanical work + heat)
this can be broken down further by
work out + heat out(this goes out the exhaust) = work in + heat in(this comes from combustion)
with simple knowledge of Temperature vs Entropy (TS) diagrams we know that at lower entropy (which is associate with lower temperature, or colder air) compression work is reduced, therefore you are getting more power out of the engine at colder intake temperatures because it wastes (figuratively speaking only) less energy to compress the fluid in the cylinder before combustion and expansion can take place.
if anyone wants to know more let me know and ill be more than happy to explain some more, it may take some time for me to verify all the facts and get another post put up, but ill explain it if anyone is interested.
that said, your point about REAL, EFFECTIVE mods doing very little for max hp numbers is correct, all you really do is to change the hp/torque curves (more commonly known as the powerband) either up or down the RPM range(sure you will change the peak numbers a little bit, but not a whole lot and it wont be noticeable to most unless you spend some serious money).
Now the way that an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE from here onward) functions is by converting the chemical energy stored in the gasoline into heat energy, which pushes on a piston creating mechanical energy which drives your car. The more heat that gets converted (more fuel in most cases) the more power is available to extract from the cycle. This is why some cars come with an EGR system in place, this takes the hot exhaust gases and feeds some of them back into the intake with the intent of increasing the starting temperature of the cycle. This raised temperature means that you will need to create less heat in the combustion phase which means that less gas needs to be added to the cylinder to create the same power output, this also reduces the amount of heat thrown out through the exhaust to the environment. This yields a change in fuel economy for the better or (depending on the design) and increase in power without the associated decrease in fuel economy.
With this very very basic explanation of how the ICE power cycle works putting in colder air will require more fuel in order to create the same temperature change, however the power output will change because of this temperature change, usually in the upwards direction because of the greater temperature differential there is more energy that can be extracted. This is because the basic energy equation for the cycle is simply:
energy in (in the air + what is released from burning the gas) = energy out (mechanical work + heat)
this can be broken down further by
work out + heat out(this goes out the exhaust) = work in + heat in(this comes from combustion)
with simple knowledge of Temperature vs Entropy (TS) diagrams we know that at lower entropy (which is associate with lower temperature, or colder air) compression work is reduced, therefore you are getting more power out of the engine at colder intake temperatures because it wastes (figuratively speaking only) less energy to compress the fluid in the cylinder before combustion and expansion can take place.
if anyone wants to know more let me know and ill be more than happy to explain some more, it may take some time for me to verify all the facts and get another post put up, but ill explain it if anyone is interested.
#17
05-28-2011 | 01:22 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Riverton, UT
Ok, well we have a difference of opinion, so being a good comrade lets hash this out.
The compression ratio is not a true number because the intake is of air is constricted from the OEM setup, with ANY type of modification it can be changed. If you change the flow even slightly there is going to be some kind of change because a ever so slight bit of more air actually enters the cylinder, now it might be small, but it's still there. Regarless, the numbers are not actual because each engine is different and there are constrictions
You don't have an EGR dude! And the more fuel doesn't mean more power, you HAVE to have the correct stoichiometric mixture (air fuel), so regardless of the fuel you have to ensure the mixture correct, therefore your analogy is null. The intake (and the entire system) is not designed to take in hot air, however it can and will make the aproporate corrections to ensure the correct stoichiometric mixture. It is fully operated by the O2 sensors, MAP, and the charge temperature sensor. This is the only reason that the stoichiometric mixture can be made!!!! You are correct in your analogy, however you are applying basic concepts on a inferior system.
Anyway you look at it, the colder the air intake with less then OEM restriction is going to add more fuel to the meet the stoichiometric mixture that is regulated by the PCM, this mixture then is going to create more overall energy (power) during combustion PERIOD! Not to mention the heat indifference made as I indicated in my last posing. Anytime you want to ride with me while pulling and in hot air you will see the difference hands down. In fact I would even go as far as to say I would bet during a 110 F day during towing you could even loose up in the range of 100 ft Torque at the wheels under sever load.
So I stand by my statement, respectfully.
Supporting documentation: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-p...4&size=largest
The compression ratio is not a true number because the intake is of air is constricted from the OEM setup, with ANY type of modification it can be changed. If you change the flow even slightly there is going to be some kind of change because a ever so slight bit of more air actually enters the cylinder, now it might be small, but it's still there. Regarless, the numbers are not actual because each engine is different and there are constrictions
You don't have an EGR dude! And the more fuel doesn't mean more power, you HAVE to have the correct stoichiometric mixture (air fuel), so regardless of the fuel you have to ensure the mixture correct, therefore your analogy is null. The intake (and the entire system) is not designed to take in hot air, however it can and will make the aproporate corrections to ensure the correct stoichiometric mixture. It is fully operated by the O2 sensors, MAP, and the charge temperature sensor. This is the only reason that the stoichiometric mixture can be made!!!! You are correct in your analogy, however you are applying basic concepts on a inferior system.
Anyway you look at it, the colder the air intake with less then OEM restriction is going to add more fuel to the meet the stoichiometric mixture that is regulated by the PCM, this mixture then is going to create more overall energy (power) during combustion PERIOD! Not to mention the heat indifference made as I indicated in my last posing. Anytime you want to ride with me while pulling and in hot air you will see the difference hands down. In fact I would even go as far as to say I would bet during a 110 F day during towing you could even loose up in the range of 100 ft Torque at the wheels under sever load.
So I stand by my statement, respectfully.
Supporting documentation: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-p...4&size=largest
#18
05-28-2011 | 10:38 AM
Captain
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 682
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From: Indianapolis, IN
We are confusing the situation with semantics again (I am to blame for this in my inital post... there, I said it
) You are partially correct that "compression ratio" (CR) cannot be changed without an increase in volume. This is why:
, where 
= cylinder bore (diameter)
= piston stroke length
= clearance volume. It is the volume of the combustion chamber (including head gasket). This is the minimum volume of the space at the end of the compression stroke, i.e. when the piston reaches top dead center (TDC). Because of the complex shape of this space, it is usually measured directly rather than calculated.
,In calculating the pressure ratio, we assume that an adiabatic compression is carried out (i.e. that no heat energy is supplied to the gas being compressed, and that any temperature rise is solely due to the compression). We also assume that air is a perfect gas.
However, this is all theory and only takes place in a strictly controlled setting. In our reality the ratio of specific heats changes with temperature and that significantly deviates from adiabatic behavior.
So, since we are not engineering a new concept car on this forum, let all agree that CAI's do increase air flow and throttle response. Even if it does increase the CR, you would not be able to measure it to a tangible value. Most of us don't care what the CR numbers are when we step on the gas; we just want the MPH number to increase quickly!
#19
05-28-2011 | 11:56 AM
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Ok ok ...well anyway uh...this has become quite the interesting thread...anyway all I know is now that with the combination of the Flowmaster, the CAI kit and the Superchips tuner my truck feels like a different animal now...just by my seat of the pants feel anyway, it has more torque and can really feel more power in the upper RPM range...the motor just seems like it is breathing a lot easier with the intake on there...
#20
05-28-2011 | 07:14 PM
THE ULTI-MOD
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,794
Likes: 34
From: Union NJ
ill take some time later to pull out my textbooks which explain alot (if not all) of this and write up a referenced response, but hydra to begin with please re-read my post i NEVER said that these trucks had an EGR valve in them, i stated what the THEORY behind adding one is, nothing more. Also, yes a CAI will increase the amount of fuel burned and the hp/tq numbers you feel while driving.