1st Gen Ram Tech '93 & older Rams: This section is for TECHNICAL discussions only, that involve 1993 Rams and older. For any non-tech discussions, please direct your attention to the "General discussion/NON-tech" sub sections.

85 Dodge D150 No Fire Happening

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 19, 2023 | 01:24 PM
  #11  
TheaMo67's Avatar
TheaMo67
Thread Starter
|
Rookie
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Childress, TX
Default

Hi Y'all,
After watching the following video I discovered that I have the correct power (spark) to the ignition system to start the engine.
(I do realize that this video is for a duel ballast, but I believe the principle is the same.)
However, I am still getting no start, no matter how the distributor is adjusted. With the rotor pointing to cylinder #3 at TDC (compression stroke), instead of #1, I'm beginning to believe that the engine jumped time and that's why it's off and I get no start. I'm seriously thinking about tearing into it and putting in the new double roller timing chain kit that I've had since my previous D150. However, before I do, I want to see if y'all agree with me or not.
 
Reply
Old Feb 19, 2023 | 02:39 PM
  #12  
ol' grouch's Avatar
ol' grouch
Grand Champion
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5,156
Likes: 723
From: S.W. Indiana
Default

Originally Posted by TheaMo67
Hi Y'all,
After watching the following video I discovered that I have the correct power (spark) to the ignition system to start the engine. https://youtu.be/tVja7UctgIw (I do realize that this video is for a duel ballast, but I believe the principle is the same.)
However, I am still getting no start, no matter how the distributor is adjusted. With the rotor pointing to cylinder #3 at TDC (compression stroke), instead of #1, I'm beginning to believe that the engine jumped time and that's why it's off and I get no start. I'm seriously thinking about tearing into it and putting in the new double roller timing chain kit that I've had since my previous D150. However, before I do, I want to see if y'all agree with me or not.

Metalurgy has advanced over the years on timing chains. In the 1970's, nylon was put on the crank gears to make the engine quieter. If you have the original chain in there, it may have come off the crank gear. It could very well have jumped a tooth or more. Actual breaking is pretty rare but it doesn't have to break. If you do swap the chain, drop the oil pan and clean it out. You'll have any nylon that came off in there. It can restrict oil pickup and reduce pressure. Since you've gone this far, I'd swap in an high volume, not high ressure, oil pump. This will compensate for worn bearings and seals inside the engine. I did that on a used engine with about 95,000 miles when I dropped it into a truck and it ran another 200,000 miles until the frame broke.
 
Reply
Old Feb 19, 2023 | 07:37 PM
  #13  
crazzywolfie's Avatar
crazzywolfie
Legend
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,025
Likes: 72
From: orangeville ontario
Default

like i already said it may be best to pull the valve cover and verify if the timing has jumped. at TDC on the compression stroke both intake and exhaust on cylinder 1 should be closed.
 
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 02:04 PM
  #14  
TheaMo67's Avatar
TheaMo67
Thread Starter
|
Rookie
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Childress, TX
Default

Originally Posted by crazzywolfie
like i already said it may be best to pull the valve cover and verify if the timing has jumped. at TDC on the compression stroke both intake and exhaust on cylinder 1 should be closed.
I did take off the valve cover, and my ex turned the engine at the hormonic balancer, and made sure that the intake and exhaust valves are closed. However, I also noticed that it's dry as a bone under the cover. I pointed that out to my ex, and he said, "Good thing you noticed that." So it looks like I'll be draining the oil and checking out the oil pump as well. He was also thinking that the cam might be flat, and he had me crank the engine so he could see how the rockers were moving. He said they look fine. Then I had him crank the engine so I could see, and that's when I notice that no oil was coming to the top. Also, the rockers for cylinder #7 has rust on them, so I may be doing a full gasket job on it like I did with my 67 Furry.
 
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 06:10 PM
  #15  
Moparite's Avatar
Moparite
Grand Champion
Loved
Community Favorite
10 Year Member
Community Builder
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,435
Likes: 578
Default

When you get both valves closed and the piston at the top of the cylinder where is the rotor pointing to? It should be #1 wire.
 
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 07:56 PM
  #16  
crazzywolfie's Avatar
crazzywolfie
Legend
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,025
Likes: 72
From: orangeville ontario
Default

how long were you cranking? you may need to crank longer to see oil at the rockers. if oil pressure is the issue you will likely need more than gaskets. you would likely pretty much need a rebuild. you definitely need to see where the rotor is pointing with both intake valves closed on 1. if it is still pointed at cylinder 3 or 2 in the cap there is a possibility that it is setup like displayed in the hayne manual.
i think the 1 is from the haynes manual and the other may be from alldata. only 1 spot difference but may be the difference between a running or none running engine.
 

Last edited by crazzywolfie; Feb 20, 2023 at 07:58 PM.
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 08:41 PM
  #17  
TheaMo67's Avatar
TheaMo67
Thread Starter
|
Rookie
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Childress, TX
Default

Originally Posted by crazzywolfie
how long were you cranking? you may need to crank longer to see oil at the rockers. if oil pressure is the issue you will likely need more than gaskets. you would likely pretty much need a rebuild. you definitely need to see where the rotor is pointing with both intake valves closed on 1. if it is still pointed at cylinder 3 or 2 in the cap there is a possibility that it is setup like displayed in the hayne manual.
i think the 1 is from the haynes manual and the other may be from alldata. only 1 spot difference but may be the difference between a running or none running engine.
I have the Haynes manual, and it looks like the first picture. I'll check it out. Also, two days ago, I was cranking it till the battery began to run down. I believe it shouldn't be dry just from then. Also, my ex who's a retired certified auto technician, said it shouldn't be dry.

Another thing too, the brand new distributor warbles with the hold down bolt loose enough to move it, just like the old distributor was doing. Except the old distributor does have a bent shaft, cuz when I took it out and turned the shaft, you could see it was bent. So I'm thinking that the oil pump shaft twisted and bent. I had the same problem with my 82 T. Bird when the oil pump froze up.

So, it's very much looking like I'll be tearing into it. Tomorrow I'm going to drain the oil and take off the pan to see what I got under there.
 
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 09:17 PM
  #18  
crazzywolfie's Avatar
crazzywolfie
Legend
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,025
Likes: 72
From: orangeville ontario
Default

well you should consider when trying to get oil to the rocker the pump has to fill system from about the oil filter up and that the rocker shaft is hollow so they have to be filled before you will start to see oil out the rockers. if i thought there may be an oil pressure issue on an engine i would install a mechanical gauge because it is more likely to show you if there is an issue.

hopefully the oil pump shaft is not bent. it likely won't be very easy to remove if it is.
 
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 10:37 PM
  #19  
ol' grouch's Avatar
ol' grouch
Grand Champion
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5,156
Likes: 723
From: S.W. Indiana
Default

Originally Posted by crazzywolfie
well you should consider when trying to get oil to the rocker the pump has to fill system from about the oil filter up and that the rocker shaft is hollow so they have to be filled before you will start to see oil out the rockers. if i thought there may be an oil pressure issue on an engine i would install a mechanical gauge because it is more likely to show you if there is an issue.

hopefully the oil pump shaft is not bent. it likely won't be very easy to remove if it is.

The gear is easy to remove once the distributor and intake manifold are off the engine. It comes out through the top if I remember correctly. The pump comes out through the bottom by dropping the oil pan. Personally, if I were to go to that much trouble, I'd pull the engine and work on it on an engine stand. Add a high volume oil pump, NOT high pressure and replace the expansion plugs for future insurance, Sakes, you may drop the pan and fine the oil pick up is blocked or fell off. Not common but I have seen it.
 
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2023 | 11:31 PM
  #20  
crazzywolfie's Avatar
crazzywolfie
Legend
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,025
Likes: 72
From: orangeville ontario
Default

Originally Posted by ol' grouch
The gear is easy to remove once the distributor and intake manifold are off the engine..
if it is not bent yes it is easy to remove. if the shaft is bent it may need some help being removed and will like take the bushing with it. i would agree it would likely be easier to work on the engine with it out of the truck but if your going to do that minus well just get another engine to drop it and make it a couple hour swap instead of a multi day repair.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 AM.