When things get to hot
#1
07-20-2009, 02:34 AM
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When things get to hot
This is, well was, the engine out of my boss's '00 Dodge Dakota 4.7
Let me explain: Last week the boss came driving into the shop, the engine was rattling and smoke and steam was pouring out from under the hood. He told me it started over heating a about three miles before, then the oil pressure dropped off just as he was pulling into the shop with the engine still running. After shutting off the engine it would not restart i did not think it would but it did turn over which i thought was strange.
So after pulling the drivers side head this is what i find
Looking at #1 and #3 cylinders the intake valves seats fell out. They are pressed into the head (Think the heads got a little hot)?? Then looking over at #7 cylinder what is all that you ask, that is the piston head.
#7 piston and cylinder
Pulled the engine the same day a pic of a boat anchor
So what do you think happened?? LOL
Also something i cant figure out the front cover behind the water pump is trashed, electrolysis ate the cover bad. I will get some pics soon what i want to know is what is causing it. i tried adding more grounds to the block flushing the coolant. this was before when i replaced the head gasket but it did not help. so what could it be?
Let me explain: Last week the boss came driving into the shop, the engine was rattling and smoke and steam was pouring out from under the hood. He told me it started over heating a about three miles before, then the oil pressure dropped off just as he was pulling into the shop with the engine still running. After shutting off the engine it would not restart i did not think it would but it did turn over which i thought was strange.
So after pulling the drivers side head this is what i find
Looking at #1 and #3 cylinders the intake valves seats fell out. They are pressed into the head (Think the heads got a little hot)?? Then looking over at #7 cylinder what is all that you ask, that is the piston head.
#7 piston and cylinder
Pulled the engine the same day a pic of a boat anchor
So what do you think happened?? LOL
Also something i cant figure out the front cover behind the water pump is trashed, electrolysis ate the cover bad. I will get some pics soon what i want to know is what is causing it. i tried adding more grounds to the block flushing the coolant. this was before when i replaced the head gasket but it did not help. so what could it be?
#2
07-20-2009, 12:36 PM
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Coolant content reacting to the metals. Is he using cheap quality coolant? Is he mixing it himself? Is he doing it right? that's where I'd start. Something is causing it to react to the metals...
It over heated because the coolant passages are blocked I'm assuming right?
Keep me posted on what you find. Its an intriguing problem, and i'm always open to knowledge about engine rebuilds and difficult problems.
It over heated because the coolant passages are blocked I'm assuming right?
Keep me posted on what you find. Its an intriguing problem, and i'm always open to knowledge about engine rebuilds and difficult problems.
#3
07-20-2009, 08:03 PM
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i was thinking the same thing, Coolant was reacting to the metal causing "the battery effect" the coolant was running about 2.5 volts. After i added some grounds to the block and the cover, it dropped to .5 volts
When i replaced the head gasket about 6 months ago there was the same damage to the front cover so i replaced it. all of the cooling jackets seemed open but with the cover that badly eaten the circulation must have been affected.
I was not at the shop so did not get to take pics maybe tomorrow.
When i replaced the head gasket about 6 months ago there was the same damage to the front cover so i replaced it. all of the cooling jackets seemed open but with the cover that badly eaten the circulation must have been affected.
I was not at the shop so did not get to take pics maybe tomorrow.
#4
07-20-2009, 11:32 PM
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#5
07-21-2009, 12:13 AM
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#6
07-21-2009, 12:33 AM
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The Battery Effect
The battery effect is what happens when two different metals, in this case Copper and Aluminium are present in the same body of water. If your water cooling loop contains a piece made from both these metals, oxidation (rust) will occur much faster, and the performance of the loop will quickly deteriorate. This reaction has been known to ruin many water cooling systems, but it can be prevented a few simple ways. First, whenever possible, do not mix these two metals. Use a copper waterblock with a copper radiator, or the opposite. If you cannot use two similar components, then using an anti-oxidant is a must. I would personally recommend Water Wetter, because it also prevents fungal growth while improving the cooling capacity of the water. Water Wetter is available for sale from Directron.com, and a 4oz bottle should be more than enough to cover any water cooling need.
The battery effect is what happens when two different metals, in this case Copper and Aluminium are present in the same body of water. If your water cooling loop contains a piece made from both these metals, oxidation (rust) will occur much faster, and the performance of the loop will quickly deteriorate. This reaction has been known to ruin many water cooling systems, but it can be prevented a few simple ways. First, whenever possible, do not mix these two metals. Use a copper waterblock with a copper radiator, or the opposite. If you cannot use two similar components, then using an anti-oxidant is a must. I would personally recommend Water Wetter, because it also prevents fungal growth while improving the cooling capacity of the water. Water Wetter is available for sale from Directron.com, and a 4oz bottle should be more than enough to cover any water cooling need.
Does he have an after market radiator? Maybe some replacement copper lines in the cooling system somewhere? Maybe the trans cooler is interfiereing?
#7
07-21-2009, 01:50 AM
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Vary interesting article i will look into the radiator i think it is aluminum but the trans cooler may be Copper. But the battery Effect works the same with aluminum (the heads) and iron (the block) and you add ethylene glycol (the engine coolant). Along with the friction of the pistons moving in the cylinders leading to magnetization put them together you have a battery. Add the low coolant flow just leading to problems.
Also thinking about the water pump bearing is bad. you can wiggle the pump pulley.
This also could have led to the bad flow. or could have the "battery Effect" caused it. Because the water pump was only 6 months old replaced it at the same time as the cover.
so it makes you think what caused the problem the cause or the Effect?
Also thinking about the water pump bearing is bad. you can wiggle the pump pulley.
This also could have led to the bad flow. or could have the "battery Effect" caused it. Because the water pump was only 6 months old replaced it at the same time as the cover.
so it makes you think what caused the problem the cause or the Effect?
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#8
07-21-2009, 12:48 PM
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that's a good question. lots of variables. I guess what I'd do is try to stop the cause as much as possible and try to stop the effect, you know? With that many different things that could be causing a problem, and without knowing which is actually doing it, the best you can do is try solving the problems one at a time.
I would add the water wetter like in the article, and check the voltage in the coolant regularly. I'd also make sure the radiator is okay. If the water pump cover is covered, who knows whats in the radiator, right? I wonder if the corrosion killed the water pump, could have plugged up the radiator, which lead to the over heating. I'd look over all the coolant paths make sure everything is clear in the block (But I think you said you already did this), and make sure the radiator flows well too.
I would add the water wetter like in the article, and check the voltage in the coolant regularly. I'd also make sure the radiator is okay. If the water pump cover is covered, who knows whats in the radiator, right? I wonder if the corrosion killed the water pump, could have plugged up the radiator, which lead to the over heating. I'd look over all the coolant paths make sure everything is clear in the block (But I think you said you already did this), and make sure the radiator flows well too.