Personally, this whole more efficient vehicle movement is like a fart in a wind storm...ok yeah we can get more mile to the gallon, but don't you feel that if we are using less gas than normal, the oil corps will raise the price to make what they are making now, if we stop using more, they will raise the cost per gallon just to break even. We gotta face it, oil is societies downfall...period. My question is how do you guys feel about fuel cleaners. My buddy has a dakota as do I, and he claimed he had MARKED increased in fuel economy. Have you guys had any other positive or negative experiences??

 

your partially right, it is a fart in a wind storm and yes they will just jack up the price of oil. what your missing is that its a step in the right direction. if we get a couple million farts in a wind storm you might get something out of it..

another thing. currently the most efficient gasoline engines on earth still only realize 3-5% of the potential energy that gasoline can provide. its not like we are trying to squeeze water out of a stone, there are huge improvements in fuel economy to be gained should they ever figure it out. theoretically a 100% efficient motor would produce zero heat so just the fact that we need cooling systems shows how far away we are.

these fuel cleaners your talking about, do you mean those magnetic things?

 

Bill Crower (I think that's his name) of Crower Cams fame is working on a 6-cycle engine that adds a water injection cycle (convert water into steam, it expands 1500 times or some such thing). Anyway, it's a definate step in the right direction as it reclaims a lot of heat lost through the radiator and uses it for power instead. Quite interesting really. No cooling system at all, just convert water into steam and out the tailpipe, and the block is warm to the touch after running for an hour.

 

great add on's I see what you guys mean. When I said fuel cleaners I meant the fluid type that you poor into your gas tank once empty and run it through the system so as to break down the grime and certain deposits to increase the function of your engine. Keep in mind I own a 2004 Dak with 26,000 total miles on it, so i dont know how much build up I actually have.

 

oh those additives. i find that fuel injection cleaner works sometimes. the actual solution is to use good gasoline though. i only fill up with cheveron or 76. i put 140k miles on my last truck (a 97 ranger) and never had to touch the fuel system because i always used good fuel

 

You couldn't be more wrong. You have to burn more of the E-85 fuel to create the same amount of power as Gasoline, so the 25 cent lower price is meaningless. There have been statements made that E-85 should get cheaper as it becomes more mainstream. The only benefit from E-85 is reduced dependency on foreign oil, I think the emissions are cleaner also. It doesn't eliminate the oil dpenedency since it is 15% Gasoline, which is what ignites the alcohol since the compression ratio of the average car is way too low to efficiently burn the alcohol. So if an engine was developed with high enough cylinder pressures to ignite alcohol, and convert all the heat into energy that would be a breakthrough ( and it would smell like cherries everywhere). E-85 isn't anywhere near special, but it's a small step in the right direction. Mr Bush and CO. just needs to get out of bed with big oil so we can take a big step.

 

"Fart in the Wind"? how funny all I see is the ironic logic in your post, weather you pay for gas or additives you pay.....use less pay more/use more pay less......umm more like you will always pay as much as the petroleum companies can get you to pay.....follow the money trail it will always end up in the same pile on the corp. end and you on the other end aka "the shell game"......and you thought you had out smarted someone other than yourself hehe.......oh yeah.....I work for a major petroleum company and believe me they have ALL the bases covered.....you did notice they reported the highest profit margin/gain of ANY company ever?

 

To kind of defend oil companies, one of the main reasons they make so much frickin money is because Americans use so much frickin oil.
Simple math dictates that, if: you make a profit, even a small one, on a product, but sell a crap load of it, you will make a "big profit." I mean, look at Wal*Mart. They sell the same items (same brand) as everyone else, but sell it for cheaper, and still make BILLIONS each year. It's because of the sheer amount of stuff they sell. *Something else I thought of, I'm sure the government has more of a TAX on the gas than the oil companies MAKE on it. Ever thought about that?*

To tell you the truth, with the use of ethonal, I wouldn't care if I get 2MPG less. So what? My money would be staying in the U.S. It would be going to farmers in the MidWest (my home state Illinois!!), instead of dictators in the Middle East, and, in turn, hands of terrorists. I was talking with my friends dad about this (he lived in New Mexico when the oil industry down there collapsed, owned a business, and lost all he had because the oil workers, that were laid off, couldn't pay him) and he said, "Quite frankly, I don't care if I pay $5.00 a gallon for gas, I just want my money to stay in the U.S."

While it's true that E-85 requires (again, using math) 15% real gas, if I'm thinking correctly, its a HELL of a lot better than 100% gas? Or is it just me that can't do math? E-85 is definitly more welcome to me seeing as its "85% American."
Another thing we must remember: Alaska. They've got oil up there. If we are finally allowed to tap into our own oil (drrr.. stupid environmentalists, sit there for 30 years saying, "We can't drill there!" And than complain to Bush when the Middle Eastern countries raise oil prices and *amazing* we can't pump more of our OWN OIL. What a bunch of brainless idiots) I'm sure using E-85 plus oil from Alaska would equal a way less need to MidEast oil.

The thing that gets me is, Americans can clearly see right now, we are getting oil from countries that send their oil-profits to terrorists (who, isn't it quite ironic, we are in a war againt), and we're like, "A drr drr drr.. no ethonal, thats bad, the oil companies and special interest groups told me so! Drr drr drr."

In conclusion: every time you fill up, you support terrorism (oh.. I fill up to, I think about it everytime [:@]); everytime you fill up with ethonal, you support hard working American farmers ; and, so what if you loose 10% in mileage, its not going to terrorists!

 

of the subject a bit but they make profits off of slave labor.

Back on the subject, I am not against E-85 in any way. I like the idea of reducing dependancy on foreign or any oil for that matter. The major problme though is the fact that our current crooks in office light their cubans with $100 bills every time a gas pump prints a receipt. That is what we are up against. The people who make our laws: which are supposed to protect the good, honest, taxpaying Americans; are the ones that are making it easier to rape the good, honest, taxpaying Americans. I need to fill up tomorrow, there's another $70 so G dubya can wipe his *** with his dividend check.

 

But the feeling of wiping your *** with that, just go great, lol.
I agree totally that it definailtly doesn't help we have people in office that made their pre-White House livings off of oil. I kinda just laugh when he gives a speech about making America not dependent on MidEast oil, and how "Americans are addicted to oil." (Laugh and tell myself, "Yeah, you actually want us to be addicted to make all your friends lots of money. I'd like to see you seriously do something about it.")