Although I would not say that I am just "throwing" modifications on my car aimlessly. I've done it in a very organized pattern, or at least as good and affordable as I can. I started out with what everyone did, the cold air intake. Then I got the vibrant dual exhaust, a less restrictive muffler than the stock muffler. Then I bought a header to increase torque and get rid of the disgusting stock manifold on the neon. After that, I wanted to compliment my header by putting in a high-flow cat, so I put in the 3" downpipe with the 3" cat...I disagree that it making me lose horsepower though, because it isn't like it's a straight through 3", after my cat it goes right back into the 2.25" stock exhaust piping size, and then goes into a muffler, so I will say i DID gain h/p by doing that. Then to be a smart driver, I purchased an oversized transmission cooler to be nice to my automatic transmission. So I think it's a diservice to say I'm not doing my mods in an organized fashion, I understand what the car needs to be a demoned, it's just a matter of what I can afford into this car. I know I can do all of that stuff eventually if I wanted to, I mean look at what i've done in just a year, but it's a matter of seeing if its just a little too crazy or not lol. But i do know what i am doing...

Anyways, I talked to my performance mechanic, and he told me basically what you guys told me, he said that unless I was going to port the head and get into a more advanced camshaft, and purchase a performance torque converter, a shift kit and valve body, then he thinks that the throttle body overall is just too intense for my stock airflow/fuel ratio. And i have to agree, he thinks I should just put my stock throttle body back on. As much as i love the looks of it, and as much as a pain in the *** i went through with modern performance to get them to send me the right one, i think i probably should, or at least for now, put my stock throttle body back onto the car...it's sad...

I generally find that out of first gear my car shifts into second when flooring it at 6 rpms, If i flow it out of second gear it will go to 6 1/4 rpms before it shifts to 3rd. And then third gear i can generally get 5 1/2 rpms if i floor it in 3rd. Anyways what do you guys think, any other cheap way to make this throttle body worth all that hard work and money or should I just package it up and sell it on ebay for cheap? My mechanic thinks i should run a 50 shot spray of nitrous system into my car, he thinks this is the most efficient and best way to make this car fly unless u want to be many more hours and thousands of more dollars into this relatively slow car...I'm not upset about the throttle body too much though, i think the car has improved drastically from stock with the performance mods i did accordingly, the mods i did have been doing in a calculated manner, they were not just THROWN onto the car HOPING id get some extra h/p...i knew what i was doing..this is the only mod i've sufferred from on the lowe end, although i can say that when i am really on the gas in a race the throttle body works wonderfuly and i can get to higher rms that i could never do before. Thats what tough, this t/b helps out of a lot at higher rpms, but gnerally i am not racing all the time and id rather be comfortable when i am just driving around town hearing my car sounds like its clogged up or something, im alittle bit in a pickle here.. Other than that, this car is looking good fellas, and sounding and riding great! I can't wait to get those damn rims on and get it lowered, its driving me crazy!! haha. New r/t bumper and custom fitted vibrant dual exhaust looks so good too guys, especially with the white underglow kit on at night! I'm still looking for a a camera damnit haha! But guys help me out, what do you think i should do with T/B?? If i can't do anything relatively inexepensive to fix it, should go back to stock t/b or just appreciate what it does at higher rpms??

 

If it was a 3 in exhaust all the way back, you're power will be significantly worse. You don't have enough power to put a 3 inch exhaust on your car. You only need a 3 in exhaust if you have 300 hp or more.
I agree with your mechanic about the nitrous or more money into the engine too.
As far as the tb, if u don't mind putting more money into the engine then keep it. If u lost a lot of power then u could sell the tb. It really depends how far u want to go with your engine and how much money.

 

+1!!!

Look, I can post up a chart... I have it bookmarked now, that shows the order in which tubing becomes restrictive for N/A vehicles. You don't need a 3" tubing unless your pushing over 500hp at the wheels!!! Now, what is the problem with running too small or too big of an exhaust.

Well, the small is easy, its restrictive as hell and it is a bottle neck for performance. However the Too BIG gets people confused. Going from a 2.25 in piping to 3" piping is a HUGE difference. The cost of this difference is the loss of backpressure. Backpressure in a N/A car allows the engine to maintain and build power inside the system, and the back pressure goes out the window with that 3" piping because there is no place to build it up with a huge exhaust. In the end, it results in a noticeable loss of torque on the low end and possibly even a little on the top end. Even if you have catylitic converters every foot, it doesn't effect your backpressure problem.

personally advocate that a 2.5 in tubing is too big. The STOCK 2.25 inch piping won't become a restriction until your pushing over 200 whp.... N/A.....

a bigger exhaust on a Turbo'd car is necassary, you want it as free flowing as possible. A N/A is all about maintaining balance in the system to make the best power possible.

 

I don't have a 3 inch exhaust system on my car...I said I just have the 3" downpipe and 3" cat...everything else is stock piping size after the cat. I think it was a good investment, it's better than any hi flow cat out there...I know a FULL 3" exhaust would actually hurt my performance, thats why i dont have a full 3", it's just from the downpipe to the 3" cat...after the cat it's 2.25" all the way to the vibrant dual exhaust...

But what do you guys think, should I buy an underdrive pulley, is it going to be effective with all the other performance modifications I have done to the car???

 

Ok, so how exactly do you figure your making more power by going from a cold air intake, to a poor flowing intake manifold, to a poor flowing cylinder head, to a poor flowing exhaust manifold, then to a HUGE downpipe and cat converter, then to a poor flowing midpipe then to an average muffler. How exactly is that logical to you?

Back to the throttle body though, its loss of low end torque has nothing to do with your A/Fr's....and as for adding nitrous to your engine, that is quite possible the worst idea I have ever heard. If your looking to NOT put more money into your car, nitrous is not what you should be looking at. Sure, you can find "kits" for $600, but they are far from complete, far from reliable, and far from safe. A descent nitrous oxide kit will easilly cost as much as a custom SRT-4 turbo kit....

 

As long as you're not into sound systems, an aftermarkt udp would be a decent upgrade.

 

Listen Neon03RT, i understand your an ******* because everybody here praises you like a goddess, so naturally you have this very much jerk off mentality about you, but seriouslly, what are you trying to get on?? I've put work into this car, its not uncommon at all what i've done, i've done what the next guy has done...in fact more.... Having a cold air intake to replace the stock airbox is the most common thing everyone does...duh. Then, I put the header on to replace the stock manifold..duh. Then to free up more airflow, i put on a 3" cat in replacment of "High Flow cat" in a 2.25" size. Then to add some noise, looks and replace the restrictive stock muffler, i put a vibrant muffler on it. Doesn't seem very far fetched to me...in fact it's what most people do to their cars ina lifetime and never look back. Most people just stop at the cold air intake. I've done my mods in a calculated fashion, why do you have the urge to come onto this tread and bash my judgement and bash my mods, it just doesn't make sense, you seriouslly are making yourself look like an *******. Having a 3" cat is better than a 2.25" stock cat, hands down, where's the beef on that??. That's a progression, not a regression. I dont appreciate you just coming on here looking to bash what i've done, everytime you just come on trying to prove something me, it's a joke. I know what im doing, every single mod i have done HAS helped the car somewhat better than it did in stock. So what is it ?... In order to make a mod effective are you expected to gut the whole ****in engine to make it a WORTHY invesmtnet, otherwise it didnt help out ANYTHING, right?? Is that what your saying, are you saying what i have done isn't enough, why dont you quit being an *******, and acknowledge what i've done as being a positive thing instead of coming onto this thread and using it as an excuse to criticize me in a derraggatory fashion ONCE again...

 

calm down there man he is just trying to give his side on the advice. i have yet to hear anyone complain about any of the advice 03RT has given, and there is no need to get all pissed. i think spikey brought up a post a lil while back that says that no one here is bashing anyone, they are just giving their opinion on the matter. I'm pretty sure RT was not trying to come off as an ******* at all.

 

Wow easy there champ, your acting like I kicked your little puppy or something across the room...First, I am not bashing all of your mods to your car, name one post where I have said "All your mods suck" or anything like that. You will not find it, I have said it once, and I will continue to say it as long as you insist on making the outrageous claim that a 3" downpipe and 3" cat is improving your performance and is a good modification. Its simply UNTRUE. You will not find anyone on any Neon forum that actually knows anything about Neons that would agree with you or your decision to install a 3" downpipe and 3" cat to a short tube header off of a stock SOHC head and then having it go into a STOCK midpipe on an overall STOCK engine. You continue to say that you know what your doing, that your mods are "calculated" and blah blah blah. But your actions in the choices you have made are clearly not calculated, and you clearly do not fully understand what your doing. Because if you did, you wouldnt have made the mistake of installing an oversized downpipe and cat. Its as simple as that. I'm not being an *******, I'm not being a jerk, your just overreacting like before, and showing how immature and childish you really are.

 

wooooo boy.




OK!

20DodgeNeon00, I am going to try to explain everything from a simple point of view for you. I am going to sum up everything we have brought up and then show you how everything works together.

We are not complaining about the cold air intake. That is a very good upgrade to any car. It lets it breathe better and lets the car get a few extra ponies (not noticeable but your car will love you).

Secondly, the lag you experience from your throttlebody should be minimal. Normal driving should remain normal (and sometimes when you step on the throttle a little bit you might experience a slight lag in power which should be alright past 3,000 rpms). The throttle body is simply letting more air in, and a stock camshaft and engine doesnt need all of that at the lower rpms (why it insists on bogging down).

Thirdly, you should look into a good R/t Intake Manifold or anything other than the stock intake manifold. You will gain quite a bit of power on pretty much the entire RPM range. Thats due to less restriction.

4th and certainly not least a port and polish would be amazing with stock internals and a fully built up intake side of the engine.

The PROBLEM, that 03 has been trying to explain is this: You have a 3" downpipe with a 3" cat. The problem exists, if you read my post on exhaust diameter and back pressure, the same dilema. Your giving your exhaust gasses too free flowing of an exhaust to create back pressure. The worse part of the matter is when the exhaust gases go into that pipe (the downpipe), it is a very important part in where backpressure is built up. Since you have a lot less back pressure, you are suffering from severe power loss at lower rpms.

So, in total, pretty much all of us agree that the problem of the torque loss is from the exhaust 3" downpipe to 3" cat. You could pick up an AMAZING exhaust for pretty cheap (especially when it comes to other cars) for a neon. Infact, you could probably save a load of money doing an install yourself vs letting a shop do it.


Sorry, if you still don't understand PM me or something and I will explain it further.


Please, chill out. We only want to help and I am much more patient than 03


P.S. a nitrous system would BE an UBBER bad idea.