so your attempting to build a diesel v8 from scratch....

 

Including rebuilt transmission, $6000 is my high end estimation. That is, if you trade in your old engine and transmission. Includes a 75,000 mile limited warranty on the engine.

Thanks for your opinion . That's the first one I've heard that it wont make money, but I want lots of opinions so I don't just have yours It's not really intended for mass market, but if it DOES become popular, might just be the key... I'm working on what injection pump to use, or whether to go commonrail. I might take out the part of the computer controlling injection and let the computer control other aspects and just run a Moose 92cc or a turned up Stanadyne DB2. What I most likely will end up doing is running a mechanical IP on the primary direct injection circuit, and commonrail on the indirect injection secondary circuit.

Now you are going to wonder why the _ thing uses dual injectors, much less IDI. The reasoning is simple: At higher boost levels, and esp at high engine speeds, a indirect injection system can start the combustion process while the cylinder is still exhaling the gases from the last, as it is unaffected by the exhaust flowing out, that merely draws it out into the fresh air. This is the same effect as spark advance on a gasoline, except that it allows enough time for the delay that is unavoidable with compression ignition as used in a diesel engine. however, the direct injection provides much better response at low speeds and far better starting in cold weather than indirect injection. So finally, it brings together the BEST of both worlds effectively for the best experience! Redline will be around 5000RPM, just like the Magnum gassers, yellowline will be 4000RPM.

Not exactly...

Okay guys, so I suppose since you all are DF and are my most valuable resource, I might as well explain the whole shebang.

I'm doing something so simple but effective. I'm not entirely building a V8 diesel from scratch. I'll let you in on my biggest secret, the reason why I will be able to make this engine easily, with great aftermarket support, and probably be cheaper than the $6000 mark even with a tranny. I'm sorta cheating but in reality I'm not.

Here it is. I'm retrofitting a existing block. That block is the V8 Magnum. I've discussed it with several friends, including several experienced machinists, and we think we can make it work. What we will be doing, is customizing the block to match. First step is to bore the engine out, on a 5.9L less is bored out than on the 5.2L block, then we resleeve the cylinder with a very strong "timed" sleeve. The reason we use what we call a "timed" sleeve, is that we are relying more on stroke than bore to create the capacity, making the cylinder walls far less prone to cavitation. At the bottom of the sleeve, there is a slot cut out on BOTH sides allowing the connecting rod to move freely. Then we deck the block, and install our custom aluminum heads with studs. These heads have 2 exhaust and 1 intake valve per cylinder. The intake valve is much larger than the exhaust valves. The combustion chamber will no longer be a "wedge" chamber. In the heads are also the indirect injection chambers, which have one injector and one glowplug each. All valves are actuated by hardened pushrods, with high-performance lifters. The cam is ground similar to the grind used on the International NaviStar 1980s engines, as it provides the best low end torque in a diesel V8 engine. Now comes the big surprise: This engine is also equipped with EVVT, electronic variable valve timing, for one big reason: When the operator is not demanding lots of power, i.e. in a normal cruising non-towing condition, the engine operates as a normal 4 cycle engine. However, when the operator demands more power, the engine switches automatically, with no operator intervention, into 2 cycle mode, thus allowing approx. 75% more power output. There is no need to mix oil in the fuel. The operator simply operates it and maintains it like a normal 4 cycle engine. When the engine operates in 2 cycle mode, it turns on a electric blower to force exhaust gases out of the cylinders and fresh air in. I have been working on a exhaust system and intake system that will eliminate almost all of the extra noise produced by the two cycle operation mode. While it is louder than 4 cycle mode, it still will be very quiet compared to other 2cycle engines. Besides, who likes a perfectly quiet truck?

With all of the above, the engine will be lighter than many comparable diesel engines, which will allow the truck to remain fairly light, thus increasing fuel economy, and it will be able to "detune" itself on the fly, because if you don't need all the power, it's a waste of fuel, thus decreasing MPG, however, it can develop power very quickly, and can produce serious power for when it is needed, thus effectively covering both sides of the equation.

Throw some more at me ;D

 

This is just a newer version of the old 350 Olds/Chevy dsl POS motor that failed miserably back in the late 70's early 80's. If you think it's a good idea run with it, me I will just go buy a dsl truck if I want one.

 

Quit posting about "ideas" and just go make it. Then come back.

 

It's nothing near the Olds diesel. The olds diesel used a gasoline block without making any improvements to it whatsoever, and they also ran a fairly high comp ratio. This one is being beefed up plenty to handle it without any problems.

The problem with the olds, they didn't let the blocks cure properly, and several other easily fixable problems... Read here http://www.dieselhub.com/idi/olds-diesel.html

But thank you for your opinion Merc! I hope I can prove this engine to be reliable someday.

I thought about having a entirely new block made, but the cost would most likely be prohibitive to anyone but racing people.

 

Thank you for your suggestion Wh1t3NuKle. I might just do that...

 

Aluminum heads on a diesel?

How long before you can do a prototype?

 

Aluminum heads on a diesel, yes. GM already has had great success with their *cough* DuraMax using aluminum heads and aluminum blocks - those parts have not had any trouble. On gasoline engines, Dodge has used a similar configuration, on the 3.3L engine they have used a cast iron block and aluminum heads very effectively. It's cheaper, lighter, and stronger to use aluminum for the heads, and aluminum heads reject heat much more effectively.

How long til I have a prototype? Well, that's big question. Over the next couple of months, I will be contacting certain businesses and people I have connections to, and seeing if we can get some sponsoring going. The first engine will doubtless be the most expensive, and that's where my only problem occurs. So to make the answer short, once I have enough money, and IF everything went smoothly, probably in 4-8 months.

For everyone else:

I've talked to some people I know who have raced these Magnum engines, running 14:1 comp ratio, supercharging, and nitrous, and the engines have withstood all that very well. This engine will be running between 15.75:1 and 16.5:1 comp ratio, plenty to start the engine easily (I've got a JD diesel, no starting aids, with a good battery, and a 16.3:1 comp, starts up well even when cold out). Point here is that if the blocks can handle racing abuse, it certainly could handle street abuse. Now putting that aside, all your comments are well founded, including the ones about the Olds diesel and just making it.

Keep throwing it at me

 

I think many of your ideas are horribly flawed.

1 4 cycle + 2-cycle mode? LOL you plan on supercharging it for 2-cycle mode? electric blowers don't work! 2-stroke diesels require a supercharger, and they burn almost as much engine oil as they do diesel...

next: 2 injectors per cylinder? do you have any idea how much common rail injectors cost? about $300 each injector for remans... so close to $2,000 for a set of 6... and you want to put 16 in there?

and where are you going to find room in the head to fit 3 valves + 2 injector tips in each cylinder...diesels are not like a gasoline...we don't inject fuel in the intake manifold. we inject DIRECTLY into the cylinder. The valves only let air in and exhaust out.

your basic diesel strokes are intake of air, compression of the air, fuel injection event that causes instant detonation, power, exhaust.

now what would be the purpose of an extra fuel injector in the cylinder??? you know a single injector can inject all the fuel you could ever want... + being common rail, the injector is computer controlled and can do multiple injection events per cycle to quiet the engine, have precise timing, and inject as little or as much fuel as you want.

this means you will need to work out some sort of injection pump...could probably run it off of the distributor gear location... this pump will take low pressure (15-30psi from the lift pump) and increase the pressure to diesel injection pressures suitable for common rail injection (15,000-25,000psi)

next will be the need for a vacuum pump regardless of what braking system the vehicle has...

HVAC controls, older cruise control systems (pre-01), and 4x4 CAD axles all rely on vacuum. All cummins diesels are equipped with a vacuum pump, as are any diesel engines that are turbocharged. Since the diesels use forced induction, they don't make vacuum and require a pump to generate the vacuum.

twin intakes and intercoolers? really?

single intercooler and single intake manifold would be more than enough for this abomination. btw you will need to use some small turbo's, or run a single and have the exhaust come together to drive it.


also to your last comment on duramax not having any trouble with the heads?! they crack the heads and blow head gaskets at 100k miles fairly routinely and need new heads...$6k job to replace. there is a reason cummins still uses iron heads and iron blocks. being all cast iron is what gets cummins into the million mile club...

 

Thank you for your comments and thoughts Jigabop. I was waiting for you to join the discussion Maybe they are horribly flawed, but at least I am putting them out there! I think it is high time that SOMEONE makes a replacement easy to use diesel engine for replacing these Dodge V8s! it certainly offers far better fuel economy.

First, there is no supercharger. There is a difference between a blower and a supercharger, they may look the same, but have a different function. The blowers purpose is to push out the old exhaust gases and push fresh air in. A supercharger raises the pressure above atmospheric pressure when the fresh air is pushed into the cylinder, it essentially "packs" it in there. And second, I don't know where you got the idea that 2cycles use far more oil. there is no oil being added to the fuel, and no ports in the cylinder walls. Clarify, please.

They may cost alot, I didn't say in concrete either that it HAD to have 2 injectors per cylinder.

Yes I know you inject directly into the cylinder. I'm not that stupid, but I suppose some people are. Somehow Fords EcoBoost manages 4 valves and more than one injector per cylinder...

I explained the purpose of two injectors per cylinder above. Go back and read it ALL, and you will see my reasoning for two injectors, which is probably bad reasoning to, but then you can correct me lol

I honestly did not know that about commonrail injectors, much of my training about diesels are coming from the 1970s and 1980s time, so I probably missed alot of extra stuff. Which is the whole reason I posted this here, not so people could attack me, but together we could come up with something that would work.

Now that's what I want to hear... A flawless idea to correct my flawed ideas. And yes I was thinking to run the IP from the dizzy gear, would work wonderfully, other people have actually done that BTW...

Once again, read the whole shebang through and you will see that I already covered that.

Yes, really. The reaonsing behind twin intakes, exhaust, intercoolers, and turbos, is that it can spool a smaller turbo much faster. Now once again I didn't state that in hard concrete; I said that was what I was thinking. Now a single intake, intercooler, and turbo probably would work fine, if the turbo could spool fast enough. That's my problem, is making sure the turbo spools fast enough.

I honestly never heard about head problems with DCs... Now if a cast iron head is better, I'm fine with that. On the other hand I know many people who've had bad block experiences with the Cummins, and bad head gasket stuff with the IDIs... To each engine, its own problems. I want the best configuration possible, and I never had heard about that with the DCs, but since you said it I trust you

So once again, none of my ideas are concrete, everybody put your suggestions out there. Lets get a good idea together, I want to make a go of this, I see a need for it.

And also, why do you call it a abomination? It's not replacing the Cummins, it won't even fit in place of a Cummins. It's place is replacing the gasser engines, for people who don't want to, cannot afford to, or don't have the time to do a Cummins swap. It will allow them to experience the greatness of diesel engines, while solving the complaint of the gassers having poor fuel economy, and makes great bang for the buck. Chances are, someone gets this, theyll want more and end up upgrading to a Cummins.

Edit: I removed several of my statements as they were not appropriate/correct. If you saw them in your email ignore them, they are void, I hit the post button by accident...