I agree and the point was not that I think there is a risk of cold seizure. Just that until things have thermally stabilized clearances are not as intended by the designer and risk of damage may be greater.

 

I've never been in as cold of weather as you guys are but it still gets cold down here in FL sometimes lol. A lot of days last winter it was under 20 when I left in the morning. Regardless of temperature the engine and engine oil are still cold. The oil is thicker so it doesn't lubricate as well and the tolerances in the engine are looser. I always start mine up, put it in neutral and let it sit for 30 seconds to a minute then drive it like a little old lady until the engine is fully warmed up. I drive through the subdivision before I get on the highway so I can keep the speed and RPM's down. I don't turn the heater on until the engine is hot because it makes it take that much longer to get hot. Might be a little overkill when it's 90 degrees outside but I've had quite a few cars with 300,000 plus miles on them and never had to tear into the engine. Also driving it helps the trans and diff get warm as well.

 

I will agree that starting up, and driving away with a lead foot is indeed bad for your motor. But, I don't do that...... Start it up, wait for oil pressure, and drive gently away. (I rarely beat on the truck anyway...... I think I have only had the pedal on the floor once, in the year and some change I have owned it.)

90% of engine wear occurs at Startup. Once oil pressure is there, wear is minimal, regardless of temp. The only time I have ever been concerned about severe cold, was when I lived in Marquette Michigan..... Regularly below -40 in the winter...... The rotary engine in my Mazda HATED that. If you didn't have a block heater, you didn't drive. That easy. (more related to trying to get the thing to start than anything else.)

Most of the vehicles I have retired (sold for scrap, or to the junkyard) went because the body had rusted away to nothing. Most of them were driven to the yard.... (I say most because some got retired due to accidents......)

 

Which IMO, is why it is more beneficial to warm the oil itself.

 

Wow, so much of that annoyed me I scarcely know where to begin. No biggie, we can be chill about it, but I don't like being lumped in with some guy (your buddy) who sounds like he doesn't have the first idea how to treat machinery.

Yes, I said "I just can't think of any physical reason why an engine has to be at normal operating temperature to be driven under load".

You have made it appear that by "under load" I meant peeling out of the driveway and trying to set a new land speed record.

I also said "If someone can tell me exactly what harm is caused by (gently) operating an engine that isn't fully warmed up, I'm all ears", and I have yet to hear what harm that causes.

Then I said "If you let the engine idle to warm up, it'll take twice as long to start running optimally as it does if you start driving as soon as the oil is pumping. Keep your foot out of the gas tank while you're driving it cold, and I think your engine will be a lot better off in the long run". I stand by that 100%.

As for: "I've always heeded the warning but had a buddy one time who figured he knew more than the machinists", the inherent implication is that I don't know as much as "your machinists" about how an engine likes to be treated, which I disagree with.

"Parts should have thermally settled into their designed running dimensions/temps before they can be run at spec or risk excess wear".

"Run at spec", like about to run the 1/4 mile, or being tested for maximum output on a dyno? Sure. Gently driven, like the old "pretend there's an egg under your right foot"? Not a problem, in my opinion.

"I'm sure that since these are general purpose consumer level vehicles designed to put up with the abuse and neglect of non professional operators there is a larger margin of tolerance"

I don't engage in abuse or neglect, and as a CDL holder and owner of a tree service, I do consider myself a "professional operator" of engines.

"I can't see that romping on a cold engine seems like a good idea".

Me either, and I never said to "'romp" on a cold engine.

"[I] had to replace one of these engines and can tell you it is no where near as simple or cheap to rebuild one of these engines as the bikes were".

I really don't think there are too many people here who don't know that an V-8 costs more to rebuild than a motorcycle engine.

***

I've been considering this issue for a long, long time, and have heard a hell of a lot of evidence and testimony on both sides. It seems to me that the consensus is that it's best to gently warm up an engine under [a gentle] load than it is to let it fully warm up at idle. I have yet to hear any credible evidence that that is anything but beneficial to the engine; anecdotal evidence of some guy who blew up a two-stroke by "romping on it" doesn't cut it.

 

If you really want your engine to last, I think the one accessory that can best do that is an oil accumulator/pre-oiler like the Canton accumulator, made here in Connecticut.

http://www.accusump.com/

They have models with a few different capacities, from 1 quart for pre-lubing your engine prior to start-up, to about 3 quarts for keeping your rock-crawler lubed when you've got the rubber side up.

http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista...g/#accumulator

I don't see it on their website, but I'm wondering if you couldn't just keep the oil reservoir warm, and pre-lube your -30 degree engine with nice warm oil before starting it.

(Do I have one of these on any of my vehicles or equipment? Don't be silly - of course I'm not that smart or industrious).

 

Those have been around for a long time, and were quite popular with the turbo crowd for a while. (the turbine is still spinning in 5 digit RPM when you shut the engine off...) So, there were a couple different varieties. One was a pre-oiler.... my personal favorite was one with an electric pump plumbed in..... turn the key to on, watch oil pressure come up, crank up the engine. It would also do the post-oiler thing, and maintain pressure for a few minutes after shut down, so the turbo could wind down with good lubrication.....

I never used one, but..... Had a customer that had one on his 85 chevy pickup, with a big block in it....... had installed it shortly after he bought the truck.... he had approaching 300K miles on it, had been thru a couple transmisssion, but, the engine still ran great, and had excellent compression.... (and would still do 50PSI on the oil gauge at idle......)

When he finally tore the engine down, (some lady sideswiped him, totaled the truck) the rod an main bearings had NO visible signs of wear. I was duly impressed.

 

Brian, you're one of the smartest guys on here, so maybe you can tell me ....

why don't we all have these on our trucks? Aren't they pretty much a no-brainer, with a return on investment that is off the chart?

I mean, you turn the key to the "On" position, and your engine gets pumped full of oil prior to start-up - what's not to like about that?

Have we stumbled into a dark corner of the human psyche where deep down we want to have mechanical problems? [Being dead serious here].

 

There's less money to made by the auto industry if your motor last's longer. (let's not get into that) But, IIRC, some of the higher end car maker's, like BMW are using a similar system. But look at how much you pay for those rides.

 

Yeah, I can totally see why most manufacturers don't bother to put them in new vehicles, but I'm just trying to figure out what's keeping most of us from putting them on our own.

Anyone?