Unregistered- I understand completely that nothing will work if the bands or clutches are at the end of their service life. My question is, what determining factor about anything that I said makes this a definite case of rebuilding the transmission? I'm just asking a question because I really want to know.

2nd to 3rd slippage. Replace gov solenoid and for two weeks, she shifted beautifully. All gears. I noticed a transmission leak when I arrived at my truck to leave work. Attempted to limp it to a gas station and the symptoms came back. Replaced gasket and still- problems shifting.

 

Nothing's definite, not when diagnosing an automatic transmission that still spins around based upon what can be put into writing in a web forum.

IF the unit is plugging up on friction material, which I don't recall being either confirmed or denied, then it's likely rebuild time. You've already replaced the parts most likely to cause problems by being fouled by circulating friction material, they worked for a time, and the symptoms have returned. That's a strong indication, but not proof, that it's game over for your transmission.

According to a formerly active member who's not been seen in quite a while, MonteC, who is an automatic transmission guy, most of the 46R's he sees that require rebuild are in the 140,000 to 180,000 mile range. Yours is in that range. There's another strong indication that can be read as "if it's not rebuild time now, it soon will be". Due to variances in manufacturing, duty, and maintenance, some don't make it to 140,000 and some go well beyond 180,000. Personally, I'd be setting aside my Mega Viper fund if I had a Ram that was still spinning the factory unit at 120,000 miles.

So, again, nothing is definite until some light is bounced off of the internals and onto the retinas of a guy who knows what he's looking at. But I'd bet a buck that if the Sure Cure and whatnot seem to work initially you'll be dropping that pan again in less than 12,000 miles. They're your dice, roll 'em or don't.

 

Great. Now I'm back to thinking about just breaking down and doing a rebuild. Ugh. Thanks!

 

1st post here so take this how ever you like.

Ive had my 01 1500 Laramie (119k on the odometer) for a little over 3 weeks, I bought it from a family member who hauled a pretty decent size boat quite often and I had driven it quite a few times. I'd noticed the trans would sometimes "hunt" between 2nd and 3rd and I noticed the cel was illuminated. Bought it anyway as my chevy had let me down for the last time.

Anyway got it home pulled the codes and got the gov pressure solenoid and tcc issue (forget the code but you guys know which one). Dropped the pan and saw fine contaminants so I figured maybe a flush and fill and possibly a some solenoids. Talked to my brother whos a Dodge service tech 1500 miles away in houston and he basically said that I could spend the 2-300 bucks and I'd get a tranny that behaved well for a few weeks until some of the particulate matter found its way back to the solenoids ( trapped in the tc and trans cooler) and fouled her up again. Long story short is it took the best builder in town and $2467.58 and she should last for years to come.

The first shop I went to wanted 550 for the valve body service, which seemed a bit high so I went elsewhere after asking around. The shop that performed the rebuild allowed me to come by and watch them gut the case and sure enough the band was glazed, clutches blued and when he turned the TC over and drained it looked like it was full of black sand.

I am alot like you and I'd love to save my hard earned money for anything other than the truck I had just brought home a little over 48 hours before writing that check but...

 

here's some questions and thoughts-

is there any way to inspect the bands and clutch/steel stuff without removing the trans from the vehicle?

is there any chance that a bad transmission can ruin a $350 rebuilt valve body, and turn the VB replacement into a waste of time and money?

is there any possibility that his "current problem", (which is not shifting into 3rd and 4th), could be anything other than directly caused by gov pressure stuff?

is there any possibility that he could manually shift with the lever for an extended period of time in order to have 1-2-3, with no TC lock nor OD.

since i like to procrastinate, i'd probably drop the pan again and clean the gov stuff to see if it helps any. if fluid is still very clean, i might strain and reuse it. i'd try to avoid spending money it if the odds of it staying fixed are low.

 

Nope.

Eh... a chance, not necessarily a great chance. If the thing's been circulating grit for very long, as seems likely, there will be wear around the front pump gears allowing them to dig into the pump housing, which could throw metal into the valve body. Other than that, circulating grit will accelerate the wear of the aluminum bores in which the steel valves ride, which might be an acceptable risk because it's not going to be in there long anyway (with 148k on the clock). It seems to me to be just iffy enough that it violates my "don't play any games you cannot afford to lose" rule.

Hanging in second and requiring feathering the throttle to get an upshift is a governed pressure problem. The transmission thinks someone's in go-fast mode. Maybe the kickdown valve is hanging, or the throttle valve is geborked, maybe a sensor or solenoid is fouled... can't know from here. But it's a governed pressure problem in any event.

Maybe, maybe not. The tricky part: There is no manual 3rd, per se.

If I were stuck in gottahavit mode, I might come up with the necessary pressure gauges and compressed air to do the diagnostic procedures in the FSM to determine, as near as possible, WTF is going on. If it's as simple as fixing a leaking manual valve or freeing a stuck kickdown valve, that's a cheap enough fix to do in order to get on down the road a little further but I'd restrict my driving to as little as possible and only where the kindness of strangers is likely to be available when the thing lets go. My concern is that the thing is probably shedding friction material at a helluva rate and transmissions just do not go far like that.

Turning to the wisdom of the assembled gurus: How often do these Hail Mary fixes on high mileage units work, in your experience? In mine it's well below 10% of the time.

 

good answers. another question.

staying focused on the current problem, not upshifting. if the problem is most likely governor pressure related, what are the odds that replacing the valve body will have any effect on that, good or bad?

i'm concerned that the $350 valve body replacement might be a waste of time and money for everyone except the man that sells the VB, and takes away time and money from the actual problem, which seems.... to be - governor pressure and possible contamination.

 

You both have valid points. This truck isn't my daily driver, but I do need it to haul wood from time to time as I've completey gone off the grid and am only using wood to heat my home.

I do thank all of you for your responses. At this point I need to make a decision. In the interim while waiting to save up for a transmission, perhaps I can get away with installing a drain plug in the tranny-(for future episodes that I'm sure will happen) and installing the borg warner gov. solenoid.

Let me ask you guys this. Would it be helpful in any way for me to drop the pan and take a few pictures of what the transmission fluid looks like...and maybe a shot of the magnet? From what I've heard- transmission fluid can either be completely contaminated with crap- or it can be within the "normal" parameters. I may have trouble interpreting.

Of course this may all be a short term fix...if at all. Maybe a 350 dollar VB is a bad investment right now considering I may have to very well rebuild this transmission eventually. And during the time between that, I should stay on here and learn how to rebuild one.

 

Depends... if the usual suspects are swapped at the same time, it'll probably bring the pressure back to normal. For a while, at least. With considerable risk of getting expensive, I suspect.

I'm with ya. When I was a young man with a family to support, I enrolled in the Fix It Cheap course offered by Adversity University, AKA School Of Hard Knocks, and graduated summa *** laude in just two years. The tuition for the accelerated coursework was outrageous. My Master's Thesis was entitled "The False Economy of Automotive Maintenance Frugality", and subtitled "Reality Doesn't Give A Damn What You're Hoping For".

Were that truck mine, I'd bite the bullet and just do it right. At 148,000 miles the transmission's either gone or so close to it that it's not worth futzing with. But I might be an extremist because I hate hate hate vehicle breakdowns.

It might, if the photos are detailed enough. Also, don your "don't want that crap entering my body through my skin" gloves and wipe three fingers through the puddle, and get a photo of those fingers under bright light. Describe the aroma of the fluid, too, and give an indication of how many miles the fluid's been in there after what sort of change (just pan contents, full replacement, whatever).

Heck, as long as the pan's off, drop the valve body and get some clearly focused shots of the internals. With FSM in hand and taking great care to remember what goes where for reassembly, slide out the valves and look at/photograph them just as they come out, then clean them and their bores up nicely, slide 'em back in, and work them around to feel for slop. I've got a hunch that you're going to find a lot of friction material in the passages and slop in at least the manual valve. The manual valve is prone to wear and leakage and will probably be the worst of them all.

If everything in the valve body but the manual valve is in good shape (as is quite often the case) you can save most of that $350 and just fix the bore and valve while you're in there rebuilding anyway. The Sonnax kit for that is less than forty bucks.

My great concern: At 148,000 miles and with symptoms indicating circulating friction material, squeezing out a few more miles might just take you all the way to catastrophic hard parts failure. When the paper clutches are shedding grit rapidly they're right next to done for anyway, and that friction material goes where lube oil goes. If you're really unlucky the friction material will clump somewhere that causes an erroneous band apply that grenades the whole darn thing, otherwise you get clutch steels meeting and throwing metal into the oil that will eventually (read: relatively quickly) destroy hard parts. The case could be ruined.

Automatic transmissions can be real pains in the *** at times. I still like 'em just fine, myself. Once you're over the mental block of tearing in for a rebuild, they're just parts that go round and round and it's easier to appreciate their benefits.

 

You guys ar tossing th VB rebuild for $350 around pretty librally.....Mayb I should build up a few for sal!

And in a high mileage vehicle will most likely have more than one issue in the tranny. The worst one get the attention/blame. But I have never seen a tranny that only needed one thing. Wear on frictions flow throughout. Dodge made the problem more complex by utilizing a lockup TC. More moving partts, more potential for failure.

The question is, when to apply a band aid such as solenoid swap, and will it last long enough to get to a point where a rebuild is more affordable.