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Gen2 Suspension specifics

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Old 04-01-2016, 06:24 AM
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Default Gen2 Suspension specifics

I have already posted a similar thread, more or less fishing for ideas and complaining about the destructive nature of our 1500.

While at the Gas station I watched the wife roll 'er around to a pump, and noticed a few things about the steering geometry in motion.....something I don't often get a chance to see on flat ground being our driveway slopes diagonally to the street.

ANYWAY, I had an epiphanous AH-HAAAA moment, and now need to confirm what I think I am seeing.

That would be something (guesstimating here) in the range of 8+ degrees of Positive Camber at rest, and around 10-15 degrees caster at lock.

What I need is somebody highly knowledgeable, who is familiar with the Ball joint to ball joint on center widths of 2nd Gen Rams.

I am now quite certain We are destroying tires at a rate of 2 every 6-8 months because the LCA's I got from the junkyard were on the "compatible" list, and bolted up with some fighting, but ultimately are to Narrow.

The backstory to replacing both LCA's is as simple they were both ripped more than 3/4 across through the middle of the coil seats. I have no clue How, I would have never guessed it even possible (not rusted) but they were.

I am tired of beating my head on a wall over it, I am tired of paying for tires, and tired of being tired of one thing leading into another.

She's a good ole truck, and I ain't ready to give up on 'er cause she ain't showing signs of giving up either...
..but Damn all of this.
 
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:54 AM
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Too narrow? Or too short?
 
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by HeyYou
Too narrow? Or too short?
How ever you want to phrase that yeah....If what I am seeing happen is in fact what is going on....then the lower ball joints are closer to the centerline of the vehicle than they should Be.

As far as bolting them into the truck I had a pretty good fight getting them pinned in, to start with because Autozone dicked me around on the tool I needed.
With the truck on stands and the front end ripped apart before realising that issue, and having no ride a decided to blow off the spring change, but fighting the coils is what made things rougher to get in place in addition to the angle I was working from.

Originally I was going to replace the spring and shocks while it was apart, and had grabbed the spring comp tool for coil overs and they switched it for the strut type which is a completely different design with spring hooks for a much smaller diameter coil.

The ball joint position would explain how I get enough angle at wheel lock for even the oem recommended (in door 16x7 rim 225/70/16 tire) tires to come in contact with the LCS shock bolt head thus cutting a groove 1/4" away from the inner rim lip. The only tires I have had on the vehicle that DIDN'T get cut to hell also made the speedo read perfectly exact
( slow reading side range within .05 MPH @50 MPH) and they were 215/85/16 from the rear of a duelly commercial truck, like a U-Haul or Ryder 30' Box truck Mover.
 
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:19 AM
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I am having trouble visualizing this.... Shorter lower control arms will increase caster angle, which will also affect camber in a turn. If you have close to 8* camber with the wheels pointed straight ahead....... it really sounds like something is bent.

Have you tried to have the truck aligned?
 
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HeyYou
I am having trouble visualizing this.... Shorter lower control arms will increase caster angle, which will also affect camber in a turn. If you have close to 8* camber with the wheels pointed straight ahead....... it really sounds like something is bent.

Have you tried to have the truck aligned?
lemme see if this helps print the picture......from BALL JOINT to the Chassis where it is pinned in.

I can assure you nothing is bent, and my figures are a rough guestimate as for degrees of positive camber @rest, and Caster @full lock.
Both are noticeable in any case, and would explain the abnormal ability to rub the OEM specified tire size.
 
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:21 PM
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Ok, your truck is 2wd. I missed that little tidbit previous. Things make a bit more sense now......

have you had an alignment since changing them??
 
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:21 PM
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I think these things have a pretty large scrub radius, which effects the camber/caster at lock... ever noted how the front tires squeal on low speed tight radius turns.
But this aside, a stock setup should not have any interference contact.
 
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HeyYou
Ok, your truck is 2wd. I missed that little tidbit previous. Things make a bit more sense now......
have you had an alignment since changing them??
Yep, and it went from destructive across the entire tread surface and tearing out the inside sidewall on the LCA, to the wrecking the outer 2 inches of tread and an additional 1/2 of side wall. Proper pressure and above by 5 psi accelerates the tread deterioration, running them 5 under just eats up more sidewall.

Originally Posted by Spillage
I think these things have a pretty large scrub radius, which effects the camber/caster at lock... ever noted how the front tires squeal on low speed tight radius turns.
But this aside, a stock setup should not have any interference contact.
I dunno about "scrub radius"that is a foreign term for Me.
It don't even chirp....it just makes that nasty scratch sound like shuffling feet on sandy pavement.
And again hitting the LCA on the head of the bolt holding the shocks bottom end is what first alerted Me there was an issue. So after a "laser alignment" and a narrower set or tires, it went from carving them out to being more like a curb scuff, and eating the outside edges to hell.
 
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:30 PM
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Alright, So this is worth the insult of feeling like a moron.

I stopped into a local shop that does everything from rubber to roof-bumper to bumper, and told them I wanted a professional opinion based on experience.
I explained the reason why I don't have the LCA's the truck was equipped with and why, and where/ off of what I got them, the LCA-SA bolt head issue at lock, and the clockwork tire destruction.
I mentioned the shocks and springs are probably bad, but that the damage wouldn't likely be that due to the speed at which everything is ready to be replaced AGAIN.

I proposed the possibility of the LCA's being somehow and inch or two too short, and how in theory that could make the truck "tippy toe" on the outer edges of the tires.....and that it was right out front if he could take a second to look or wanted to.
The guy was really raising an eyebrow, at this point. He asked if it had been aligned recently......I reconfirmed because it hasn't even been four months ago it was "professionally laser aligned".
His posture became one that screamed disbelief and hinted of nervousness, and he went out to the truck to look.

I showed him the scuffed inner sidewall and thread bare tire.....he looked at the nose again (the wheels were cut about 1/4 from full lock) he smiled and asked.
"Where did you get it aligned at?" I told him "MAVIS" and without a pause or thinking for a second he blurted out.....

"Well that's your problem, I have had cars in here on the same day they supposedly aligned them that reportedly pulled and shook worse than they did prior. I had a Dodge like yours come in after and alignment because it wandered badly--problem was as simply as they didn't lock the adjuster sleeves at all and lost a bolt. The scariest act of negligent stupidity I have seen so far, was an Audi I had in yesterday. Mavis was supposed to do the ball joints, and well they did put the new ones in but they were tied in with wire instead of bolted--my figure is they were rivet pressed and they didn't have the bolts for the job"

HOW THE HELL HAVE MORONS LIKE THAT NOT KILLED ANYONE OR BEEN SUED LEAVE NEVERMIND HOW THEY HELL THEY GOT ASE CERTIFIED ?!?!?!!?
 
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:51 PM
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Holy smokes. What a bunch of idiots....... Any reports on them at the BBB?
 


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