Timing Chain Replacement- Issues with Crankshaft + Camshaft
Specs:
1997 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.9L 360 Magnum, interference
Long story short: Had timing cover leak about a week ago, tore the engine apart to expose the timing chain/sprocket. The camshaft sprocket was cracked almost in half (not sure if I did that or it was like that already- weird since the truck was running fine, no noises besides a small antifreeze leak from the timing cover)- not the point anyway. SO I went ahead and turned the camshaft sprocket so that the dot was at 6 o' clock as best I could considering the thing was missing a good sized chunk, the chain still turned in tandem with the sprocket as well as the crankshaft sprocket. I removed the chain and all (cam sprocket + crankshaft sprocket) with ease. I noticed the crankshaft dot wasn't lined up at 12 o' clock adjacent to the camshaft dot (this is the part where I screw up), SO I threaded the crankshaft bolt back on shaft, and rotated the crankshaft 60 degrees clockwise until it was lined up with the camshaft dot. My question is; did I screw up? Did I damage my engine irreversibly?
From what I understand, the 5.9l 360 is an interference motor, meaning turning the crankshaft separately from the camshaft could have the potential to bend the pistons with the cylinders? I didn't hear this until after the incident, otherwise I would've done further research.
Some observations and notes during the incident:
I've also heard that as long as my camshaft was at 6 o' clock while I rotated the crankshaft, that the pistons/cylinders couldn't touch because the distance between them was maxed out- "top dead center"? Meaning it would be improbable I did any damage?
I guess what I'm looking for is any advise, experiences, or if there is anything to be concerned about? How would you proceed? Am I worrying about nothing, or should I assume that I bent pistons and destroyed parts within the engine? Thanks in advance! If I can come up with any more details I will.
1997 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.9L 360 Magnum, interference
Long story short: Had timing cover leak about a week ago, tore the engine apart to expose the timing chain/sprocket. The camshaft sprocket was cracked almost in half (not sure if I did that or it was like that already- weird since the truck was running fine, no noises besides a small antifreeze leak from the timing cover)- not the point anyway. SO I went ahead and turned the camshaft sprocket so that the dot was at 6 o' clock as best I could considering the thing was missing a good sized chunk, the chain still turned in tandem with the sprocket as well as the crankshaft sprocket. I removed the chain and all (cam sprocket + crankshaft sprocket) with ease. I noticed the crankshaft dot wasn't lined up at 12 o' clock adjacent to the camshaft dot (this is the part where I screw up), SO I threaded the crankshaft bolt back on shaft, and rotated the crankshaft 60 degrees clockwise until it was lined up with the camshaft dot. My question is; did I screw up? Did I damage my engine irreversibly?
From what I understand, the 5.9l 360 is an interference motor, meaning turning the crankshaft separately from the camshaft could have the potential to bend the pistons with the cylinders? I didn't hear this until after the incident, otherwise I would've done further research.
Some observations and notes during the incident:
- Rotating the crankshaft by itself (free of chain) was relatively easy, it took almost no effort to turn it.
- The camshaft remained at 6 o' clock the entire time
- When rotating the crankshaft it felt "springy", I would turn the engine 5-15 degrees and it would gently push back counterclockwise about 2-3 degrees
- At around the 12 o' clock mark on the crankshaft, I observed the sound of liquid/air from within the engine block moving past or through something?
- No metal clicking sound or mechanical noise besides the rotation of the crankshaft was observed
I've also heard that as long as my camshaft was at 6 o' clock while I rotated the crankshaft, that the pistons/cylinders couldn't touch because the distance between them was maxed out- "top dead center"? Meaning it would be improbable I did any damage?
I guess what I'm looking for is any advise, experiences, or if there is anything to be concerned about? How would you proceed? Am I worrying about nothing, or should I assume that I bent pistons and destroyed parts within the engine? Thanks in advance! If I can come up with any more details I will.
Last edited by mnamie; Nov 3, 2018 at 03:26 PM.
EDIT: The starter was off when this occurred, I still haven't removed the crankshaft bolt since, seeing as how my "helper" hasn't been around yet to secure the flex plate from below so I can loosen the bolt without effectively turning the crankshaft counterclockwise.
Actually, everything sounds pretty normal. (aside from the busted parts.) If you ran pistons into valves, the crank would immediately STOP turning, and I don't think you would be able to exert enough force to actually bend anything. I.E. I don't think you hurt anything, go ahead and put it back together.
I don't think you hurt anything either, but you won't know until you run it. According to the FSM you are suppose to leave the chain attached until the cam gear is at 6 o'clock and the crank gear is at the 12 o'clock. If I was a betting man I'd say you are fine.
Okay, so update: everything went together like a dream. Fired it up and everything ran awesome- small leaks that were fixed by tightening a few bolts on the back of the timing cover/water pump.
BUT: In tightening the crankshaft bolt, I noticed the harmonic balancer pushing into the timing cover slightly- rubbing on a piece of the cover that I noticed- its starting to grind into the cover where the previous cover didn't have this random edge. I tightened the crankshaft bolt as much as I dared for fear of cracking the cover- It still could be tightened a few more times I'm sure. Not loose by any means. I also noticed as the truck was running the belt began to slip off and back on the water pump pulley? Odd. I tightened the crankshaft bolt a couple small turns. Ran the engine for a second, and noticed the pulley slipping off the water pump once more. Not sure how I could get it to go tighter, any thoughts? Its running fine but that belt looks reaally close to slipping off...
BUT: In tightening the crankshaft bolt, I noticed the harmonic balancer pushing into the timing cover slightly- rubbing on a piece of the cover that I noticed- its starting to grind into the cover where the previous cover didn't have this random edge. I tightened the crankshaft bolt as much as I dared for fear of cracking the cover- It still could be tightened a few more times I'm sure. Not loose by any means. I also noticed as the truck was running the belt began to slip off and back on the water pump pulley? Odd. I tightened the crankshaft bolt a couple small turns. Ran the engine for a second, and noticed the pulley slipping off the water pump once more. Not sure how I could get it to go tighter, any thoughts? Its running fine but that belt looks reaally close to slipping off...
Do all of the pulleys line up correctly? What I mean by that is that the belt should be running across each of the pulleys in a straight line. If the pulleys don't line up correctly, it can cause the belt to possibly move around. Also, check the belt tensioner. If it's old and never been replaced before, it might be time for a new one.
Also, look closely at the harmonic balancer - look at the rubber that is sandwiched around it - if the rubber is cracked up, it may be time for a new balancer, as the balancer can come apart if the rubber has deteriorated.
Also, look closely at the harmonic balancer - look at the rubber that is sandwiched around it - if the rubber is cracked up, it may be time for a new balancer, as the balancer can come apart if the rubber has deteriorated.
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Well I mean that's problem- their clearly not lining up somewhere but its not obvious to the naked eye- except that the belt is hovering on the lip edge of the harmonic balancer + water pump-pulley. All of my pulleys are less than 6 months old- except for the steering pump pulley which is lined up correctly.
The harmonic balancer is original, but having just pulled it off from the engine- it had seen better days- the rubber was in pretty good shape; I've seen much much worse. I'm pretty sure the belt issue is surrounding the water pump- that's where it appears to slip off first
The harmonic balancer is original, but having just pulled it off from the engine- it had seen better days- the rubber was in pretty good shape; I've seen much much worse. I'm pretty sure the belt issue is surrounding the water pump- that's where it appears to slip off first
Yeah- brand new AtomicDog.
After some research I've done, this is a fairly uncommon issue- either I've bought the wrong timing chain cover, or my harmonic balancer rubber seal is shot. The rubber seal isn't that bad, and considering my last timing cover didn't have this odd excess metal lip- I think its the cover. Either way, that excess metal piece is doing two things to my balancer; 1) preventing it from going as far as it would move in normally and 2) causing it to sit at a slight angle which may be contributing to my belt sitting at an odd angle in turn. I'll try posting a pic or two today to get a better idea..
I think ultimately I'm going to replace the harmonic balancer to be safe, and die-grind that edge off the timing cover as best I can and hope it allows the new balancer to sit in its optimal position.
After some research I've done, this is a fairly uncommon issue- either I've bought the wrong timing chain cover, or my harmonic balancer rubber seal is shot. The rubber seal isn't that bad, and considering my last timing cover didn't have this odd excess metal lip- I think its the cover. Either way, that excess metal piece is doing two things to my balancer; 1) preventing it from going as far as it would move in normally and 2) causing it to sit at a slight angle which may be contributing to my belt sitting at an odd angle in turn. I'll try posting a pic or two today to get a better idea..
I think ultimately I'm going to replace the harmonic balancer to be safe, and die-grind that edge off the timing cover as best I can and hope it allows the new balancer to sit in its optimal position.
Last edited by mnamie; Nov 12, 2018 at 12:01 PM.











