95/5.9/360 - Was Dying at Stop - Now Cutting Out
#1
95/5.9/360 - Was Dying at Stop - Now Cutting Out
I write novels, so I apologize in advance.
210K, in the family since 70K way back in 2001.Dad has always treated this thing well. I've had it the past 3 years, put a new battery and fuel pump in it two years ago, and she's been great. Point being, we've had this truck for a while, and I notice subtle changes in it pretty easily.
Last week, I started to notice the RPMs were low at idle (about 400 Max) and every few seconds it would *barely* sputter. I was pulling it through a very narrow drive-thru and needed to back up to straighten it out. When I put it in reverse, it died. Put it back in park, cranked and started up, but idled low and the sputter was slightly more pronounced. Next day, idle low, sputtering, then fine, then while at a stoplight, it died. Started right back up, drove a mile fine, another stoplight, it dies again. Will crank, but will NOT start. Push gas down, doesn't do anything differently. Won't start, but cranks just fine. Listen for the fuel pump, and I can hear it whir 50% of the time Sits for 20 minutes (I pushed it to the curb), and I unplug the fuel relay and plug it back in. Starts, runs just fine.
The next night, it was pouring rain, would crank but would not start. Turned key 3 times got a bunch of codes: 12 and 55 sandwiched 37, 11, 32, 32(again), and 21 in that order. The next day, I took it to Mechanic Shop #1. They said they started it 20 times, it was fine, no codes. Later that day, took it to shop #2 to change oil and trans fluid, and they said it was just fine, no codes no issues. It's driving smoother with the new oil and trans flush, but still I notice a slight sputter. Since this is my only transportation to work, I start ordering cheap parts to replace, just in case. First part in was the Air Charge Sensor. Still sputters, low idle, died driving 5MPH in a parking lot. Started back up. Ran just fine, with intermittent low idle and sputter every few seconds. (When I say sputter, it doesn't shake or make a noise, it's just a lack of noise in the idle, like a gasp, but when it idles rough for a few seconds and dies, it is usually more pronounced).
Today, I changed the IAC valve and air filter. Runs much smoother and stronger now, but I took it to a car wash after replacing them and about 2 miles down the road, at a stoplight, I accelerate and a few seconds later it dies. Will not crank at all. Power is fine, lights are on, etc. I unplug the fuel relay, check all the wire connections I've dealt with recently, get back in and it cranks and starts first try. Drive it up the highway a few miles and back home a few more miles, no issues. Let it sit an hour, then go driving on the highway. Running smooth, idle is a tick higher than 400, but its more responsive and the sputter is very faint. Accelerating on the highway, I get to 40, and it CUTS OUT, power all on, still running, but NO power from the engine for a few seconds, then back to normal again. In the few days since being at the mechanic, no codes have reappeared.
It is completely random when the engine cuts out, and that is a new development. But it dying at stoplights has gotten progressively worse each time. It has had issues both in wet and dry conditions, but I'm not ruling that out as a factor.
New relays are on order, and I've purchased a new pickup coil and coil pack. Got a lot of things in my cart, but I don't know what I should do next. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.
210K, in the family since 70K way back in 2001.Dad has always treated this thing well. I've had it the past 3 years, put a new battery and fuel pump in it two years ago, and she's been great. Point being, we've had this truck for a while, and I notice subtle changes in it pretty easily.
Last week, I started to notice the RPMs were low at idle (about 400 Max) and every few seconds it would *barely* sputter. I was pulling it through a very narrow drive-thru and needed to back up to straighten it out. When I put it in reverse, it died. Put it back in park, cranked and started up, but idled low and the sputter was slightly more pronounced. Next day, idle low, sputtering, then fine, then while at a stoplight, it died. Started right back up, drove a mile fine, another stoplight, it dies again. Will crank, but will NOT start. Push gas down, doesn't do anything differently. Won't start, but cranks just fine. Listen for the fuel pump, and I can hear it whir 50% of the time Sits for 20 minutes (I pushed it to the curb), and I unplug the fuel relay and plug it back in. Starts, runs just fine.
The next night, it was pouring rain, would crank but would not start. Turned key 3 times got a bunch of codes: 12 and 55 sandwiched 37, 11, 32, 32(again), and 21 in that order. The next day, I took it to Mechanic Shop #1. They said they started it 20 times, it was fine, no codes. Later that day, took it to shop #2 to change oil and trans fluid, and they said it was just fine, no codes no issues. It's driving smoother with the new oil and trans flush, but still I notice a slight sputter. Since this is my only transportation to work, I start ordering cheap parts to replace, just in case. First part in was the Air Charge Sensor. Still sputters, low idle, died driving 5MPH in a parking lot. Started back up. Ran just fine, with intermittent low idle and sputter every few seconds. (When I say sputter, it doesn't shake or make a noise, it's just a lack of noise in the idle, like a gasp, but when it idles rough for a few seconds and dies, it is usually more pronounced).
Today, I changed the IAC valve and air filter. Runs much smoother and stronger now, but I took it to a car wash after replacing them and about 2 miles down the road, at a stoplight, I accelerate and a few seconds later it dies. Will not crank at all. Power is fine, lights are on, etc. I unplug the fuel relay, check all the wire connections I've dealt with recently, get back in and it cranks and starts first try. Drive it up the highway a few miles and back home a few more miles, no issues. Let it sit an hour, then go driving on the highway. Running smooth, idle is a tick higher than 400, but its more responsive and the sputter is very faint. Accelerating on the highway, I get to 40, and it CUTS OUT, power all on, still running, but NO power from the engine for a few seconds, then back to normal again. In the few days since being at the mechanic, no codes have reappeared.
It is completely random when the engine cuts out, and that is a new development. But it dying at stoplights has gotten progressively worse each time. It has had issues both in wet and dry conditions, but I'm not ruling that out as a factor.
New relays are on order, and I've purchased a new pickup coil and coil pack. Got a lot of things in my cart, but I don't know what I should do next. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.
Last edited by 95-Z; 03-30-2019 at 04:18 PM.
#2
Hmmm. Did you recently buy gas? You really shouldn't start troubleshooting by changing a bunch of parts. Do you have a scan tool? I'd be interested in looking at some of the live data feed. In particular, long term and short term fuel trims. Also make sure that the #1 O2 sensor is oscillating between about .1-.9 volts, and the #2 O2 sensor is stable. If you don't have a scan tool, take it to an auto parts shop and ask them to show you your live data feed for fuel trims and O2 sensors.
#3
Let me just preface this by saying I am still very new to a lot of this. That said if another member chimes in I would take their advice over mine. Are you loosing electrical when the engine cuts off?
Did you by chance clean the throttle body really well when you replaced your IAC? Do you recall the brand of your fuel pump? You checked all your vacuum hoses? From what I have read, this usually seems like its related to not enough air intake or fuel isn't getting to where its supposed to be. I remember recently reading something like this and it ended up being the TPS. Again I could be completely off. I'd wait to hear from one of the other guys before you pull the trigger on that cart.
Did you by chance clean the throttle body really well when you replaced your IAC? Do you recall the brand of your fuel pump? You checked all your vacuum hoses? From what I have read, this usually seems like its related to not enough air intake or fuel isn't getting to where its supposed to be. I remember recently reading something like this and it ended up being the TPS. Again I could be completely off. I'd wait to hear from one of the other guys before you pull the trigger on that cart.
#4
Hmmm. Did you recently buy gas? You really shouldn't start troubleshooting by changing a bunch of parts. Do you have a scan tool? I'd be interested in looking at some of the live data feed. In particular, long term and short term fuel trims. Also make sure that the #1 O2 sensor is oscillating between about .1-.9 volts, and the #2 O2 sensor is stable. If you don't have a scan tool, take it to an auto parts shop and ask them to show you your live data feed for fuel trims and O2 sensors.
I did recently buy gas. But this has all happened over a couple gas purchases. I don't have a scan tool. In my defense, I started troubleshooting by taking it to 2 different shops that told me to (essentially) bring it back when it trips a code. It hasn't yet. So I went with what my Grandpa Buck used to say: "Start with the cheapest parts first, then work your way toward the expensive ones." Check wiring, grounds, and connections, then move to $10 filters and sensors before anything else.
It is frustrating, though, because it was throwing half a dozen codes before I took it to the shop, they cleared it, and it hasn't thrown one since. But it has died or cut out a dozen times since. Still no codes.
Pretty sure dad removed the rear o2 sensor, and cut the exhaust off right past the cab. But fuel trims, live data feed. That is what I'll try next. Thanks.
#6
Turned key 3 times got a bunch of codes: 12 and 55 sandwiched 37, 11, 32, 32(again), and 21 in that order.
55 end of codes
37 Torque converter clutch solenoid CKT or Trans temp sensor too high or low
11 No Crank reference signal at PCM
32 EGR Solenoid circuit
21 O2S Stays at center O2S shorted to voltage
Any real "mechanic" would have checked the codes. As you see #11 is the main one that will effect engine running. With a second to #21, Change the crank sensor and find out what's the issue with the 02.
#7
12 Battery Disconnect
55 end of codes
37 Torque converter clutch solenoid CKT or Trans temp sensor too high or low
11 No Crank reference signal at PCM
32 EGR Solenoid circuit
21 O2S Stays at center O2S shorted to voltage
Any real "mechanic" would have checked the codes. As you see #11 is the main one that will effect engine running. With a second to #21, Change the crank sensor and find out what's the issue with the 02.
55 end of codes
37 Torque converter clutch solenoid CKT or Trans temp sensor too high or low
11 No Crank reference signal at PCM
32 EGR Solenoid circuit
21 O2S Stays at center O2S shorted to voltage
Any real "mechanic" would have checked the codes. As you see #11 is the main one that will effect engine running. With a second to #21, Change the crank sensor and find out what's the issue with the 02.
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#8
UPDATE
I believe the Check Engine light burned out between my checking the codes and taking it to Shop#1. It does not come on, at all, anymore. Thankfully I recorded the codes on my phone and listed them in my post.
So far, everything I've changed has probably needed to be changed, but are not the core issue with it dying.
Dying is either related to a faulty fuel pump (2 yrs old), or the Crankshaft Position Sensor (factory), as the codes said.
So far, I have replaced:
- Air Charge Sensor
- Air Filter
- Idle Air Control Valve
- Oil Breather
- O2 sensor
- PCV valve
- Ignition Coil
I've also cleaned out the throttle body/intake with brake cleaner. And since switching out the 3 year old o2 sensor for a new NGK, it is running very very strong now, but still dying and stuttering at idle...
Once I switch out crankshaft position sensor, I will update again.
I believe the Check Engine light burned out between my checking the codes and taking it to Shop#1. It does not come on, at all, anymore. Thankfully I recorded the codes on my phone and listed them in my post.
So far, everything I've changed has probably needed to be changed, but are not the core issue with it dying.
Dying is either related to a faulty fuel pump (2 yrs old), or the Crankshaft Position Sensor (factory), as the codes said.
So far, I have replaced:
- Air Charge Sensor
- Air Filter
- Idle Air Control Valve
- Oil Breather
- O2 sensor
- PCV valve
- Ignition Coil
I've also cleaned out the throttle body/intake with brake cleaner. And since switching out the 3 year old o2 sensor for a new NGK, it is running very very strong now, but still dying and stuttering at idle...
Once I switch out crankshaft position sensor, I will update again.