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Budget 5.9 Magnum build..err?...

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  #81  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever
I don't think I'll be able to run the stock rods, as they'll be too long for a stroker crank.

I've heard that guys have had issues with cast cranks breaking, but then I've also heard of stock cast cranks supporting 700 HP.

Granted with a stroker, it'll be more force on the crank given the same rpm. I will likely follow the builder's suggestion(s) on what I'll need for that. With Eagle recommending forged cranks at over 500 HP for their stroker cranks, I feel that I should be safe with a 450 HP engine. Not sure where it will turn out. Might be a bit over, or might not even break 400. Going for an overall torque curve than peak numbers.

Probably fall a bit under 10:1 compression. EQ aluminum heads sound like they'd make the most sense after having the machine shop go through them. I don't think there is any advantage to messing around with stock iron heads, and don't recall any aftermarket iron heads.

Cam profile again would be more or less decided by a builder or cam shop after plugging in the numbers. Since it's not going to operate at very high rpm 98% of the time, I'll favour a higher lift, short duration.

Budget is hard, and the numbers are always moving. Want to maximize my value without scrimping. So far if I have my shop here install the engine, and pull the old one, that alone would be about $2000. Might do that part myself, or more likely enlist a friend to assist. The build looks like somewhere around $7000-$8000 for what I am after. The goal of the thread is paring down the 2nd cost.
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Stroker kits use the same length connecting rod, the piston pin is moved up higher on the piston for a shorter compression height.

Yeah guys break the aftermarket cast cranks fairly easily. The stock cast crank I wouldn't be afraid to run to 700 or so, especially if you have the balance converted from external to internal like i did. Balance, main cap stability and different treatments can do a LOT towards longevity. The Eagle cast cranks really don't have a good reputation though. Even a stock stroke 360 with good heads, intake and a cam will be pushing one a bit further than I'd be comfortable with.

Also, you're mixing up the cylinder heads. EQ heads are an aftermarket iron head and are essentially an updated stock head. Little more flow and a thicker casting that doesn't crack. There's 2 aftermarket aluminum options out there and that is Edelbrock RPM and the new TrickFlow 195. The TrickFlows are...well...pretty trick lol. However they have an entirely different set of challenges that would need overcome and I don't really consider them an option. They need a special $800 rocker setup to oil them and use the old LA intake bolt pattern where the bolts are at an angle and not straight down like ours.

Being that junkyard engines are a dime a dozen, I would swap one of those in over a good weekend if that's an option for you. Or a shop can pretty simply. Then, you can drive the truck all you want while you tear down the one in it now and build it up however you decide. I currently have 233k on mine and it burns a fair amount of oil which is why for my build I grabbed a good block from a buddy that was swapping his. Even though I have a different daily I still drive the dodge regularly. Drives great with my boltons and I can take whatever time I need, want or require for the spare depending on how the rest of my life is going lol.
 
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  #82  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:45 PM
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oops. PC glitched and posted twice
 
  #83  
Old 12-05-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dapepper9
Stroker kits use the same length connecting rod, the piston pin is moved up higher on the piston for a shorter compression height.

Yeah guys break the aftermarket cast cranks fairly easily. The stock cast crank I wouldn't be afraid to run to 700 or so, especially if you have the balance converted from external to internal like i did. Balance, main cap stability and different treatments can do a LOT towards longevity. The Eagle cast cranks really don't have a good reputation though. Even a stock stroke 360 with good heads, intake and a cam will be pushing one a bit further than I'd be comfortable with.

Also, you're mixing up the cylinder heads. EQ heads are an aftermarket iron head and are essentially an updated stock head. Little more flow and a thicker casting that doesn't crack. There's 2 aftermarket aluminum options out there and that is Edelbrock RPM and the new TrickFlow 195. The TrickFlows are...well...pretty trick lol. However they have an entirely different set of challenges that would need overcome and I don't really consider them an option. They need a special $800 rocker setup to oil them and use the old LA intake bolt pattern where the bolts are at an angle and not straight down like ours.

Being that junkyard engines are a dime a dozen, I would swap one of those in over a good weekend if that's an option for you. Or a shop can pretty simply. Then, you can drive the truck all you want while you tear down the one in it now and build it up however you decide. I currently have 233k on mine and it burns a fair amount of oil which is why for my build I grabbed a good block from a buddy that was swapping his. Even though I have a different daily I still drive the dodge regularly. Drives great with my boltons and I can take whatever time I need, want or require for the spare depending on how the rest of my life is going lol.
Yep, I was a little mixed up! EQ sounds like my best bet still, despite this "new" information! Lol!

Not going to bother with a junkyard engine swap. Shop rate is crazy, and for me to do it will take a pile of time, that I'll need for other projects. I only want to do it once, and I want the peace of mind that it'll last, and be good for another long distance trip. Wouldn't mind going the other way and doing some wheeling around California. Also plan on going more or less straight North in the NWT again. In the mean time I can use the wife's Commander, and picked up an older F250. 97, carry over body style; last of the "real" trucks of that brand. Might have to change a front u-joint, maybe the rad, but it'll be good truck for the time it'll take to do the Dodge up properly.

I don't have much confidence in the used Dodge engines now, as there are a few problems that they all seem to have. Mine was a good engine except for a slight cross fire. No indication that it was going to grenade on me. Full of good oil, no heat issues, barely any load on it when it decided to spin a bearing at 1800 rpm.

If decided to build a little at a time, it would never get done.

Might back away from the stroker plan, and stick with a stock crank. Sounds like that will save me a significant amount. But will lose out on a bit of torque.

The plan on putting a cheap 440 fell through for now as it was already gone. If I can find a similar deal, it might give me what I'm after of if I can do it "cheap".
 
  #84  
Old 12-05-2019, 06:46 PM
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The stock heads suck, and simply aren't worth investing any money into at all. They are prone to cracking already, and having them milled only exacerbates the problem.

EQ also makes iron heads, and there are even new casting (thicker decks) stock heads available, just depends on how much you want to spend on heads. The EQ monster magnums flow a LOT better than stock, and are still cast iron.
 
  #85  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:11 PM
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One thing to note about EQ: foundry went under. Not sure how permanent that is but it's possible that getting ahold of some EQs might be a bit of a challenge pretty soon
 
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever
Thanks!

Fort Mac as the crow flies is not too much farther than where I live. That trip was the last year for the ice road to Tuktoyaktuk, as they were finishing an overland route. So almost spur of the moment I decided to take the trip, see a little of the Yukon and North West Territories, so I went to Tuk and Aklavik among other places. I figured I wouldn't get another chance to say that I drove on the Bering Sea. And the truck was ready for a good trip with chance of adventure.

I like what you're saying about the 6 litre, but around here, a lot of the 2005 Chev/GM trucks will be around 300 000 km or close to 200 000 miles. Getting miled out, and guys will still want too much. Then a turbo set up, would probably set me back $3500.

​​​​​​Getting a lower mileage engine, freshening one up, and adapting it would have to be pretty close to a built 408.
Last year I found a few 6.0L/drive trains take out of Vancouver area for $2k, the nice thing about the extra miles, you will have the extra ring gap clearance required for boost. I'm cheap, its a cheap way to make decent power without dumping $5-7k into a fresh engine, to only tune it with a hand tuner box (if you could). That FI kit is ready to run out of the box and has a 3 bar map sensor. The GM drive train will just drop in. You will need new driveshaft made and get a pulse adapter to get the speedo to work. Chances are if you buy from a wrecker you will get some warranty.

I want to run boost and dodge magnum is way pricey option for me. Don't get me wrong I like dodge engines as well. Just they are way more pricey to build and tune up properly. There are no good cheap used hemi's engine around here and the chevy stuff is cheap cheap. I owned a 08 1500 5.7 hemi and its just slightly faster as my 01 dodge 1500. The SRT engines crank out power but not in my budget.
 
  #87  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen
Last year I found a few 6.0L/drive trains take out of Vancouver area for $2k, the nice thing about the extra miles, you will have the extra ring gap clearance required for boost. I'm cheap, its a cheap way to make decent power without dumping $5-7k into a fresh engine, to only tune it with a hand tuner box (if you could). That FI kit is ready to run out of the box and has a 3 bar map sensor. The GM drive train will just drop in. You will need new driveshaft made and get a pulse adapter to get the speedo to work. Chances are if you buy from a wrecker you will get some warranty.

I want to run boost and dodge magnum is way pricey option for me. Don't get me wrong I like dodge engines as well. Just they are way more pricey to build and tune up properly. There are no good cheap used hemi's engine around here and the chevy stuff is cheap cheap. I owned a 08 1500 5.7 hemi and its just slightly faster as my 01 dodge 1500. The SRT engines crank out power but not in my budget.
I don't think boost is in my budget unless I get a wrecker turbo, and do the fab myself. What kind of mileage engines were going for $2000? Coming with transmission, as well? So if I am doing the math right, it would be $2000 (GM) +$400 (estimated driveshaft) + $1400 (FI estimated, our price?) + odds and ends? I'm getting around $4000 for the package, which sounds all right if it's low mileage and I could count on getting another 160 000 km out of it trouble free. I don't want to spend lots of money, but that sounds pretty close to a stout Magnum rebuild.
 
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever
I don't think boost is in my budget unless I get a wrecker turbo, and do the fab myself. What kind of mileage engines were going for $2000? Coming with transmission, as well? So if I am doing the math right, it would be $2000 (GM) +$400 (estimated driveshaft) + $1400 (FI estimated, our price?) + odds and ends? I'm getting around $4000 for the package, which sounds all right if it's low mileage and I could count on getting another 160 000 km out of it trouble free. I don't want to spend lots of money, but that sounds pretty close to a stout Magnum rebuild.
My 360 Magnum build was about $5,000. Only thing I reused was the block, crank, and rods. Had to over bore it .020. I decked the blocked (.040), .020 overbore, cylinder hone (45*cross hatch), polish the crank, install cam bearings, hot tank everything, install the new Pistons on the rods, new bearings(mains/rod),Piston/ring kit, soft plug install came to around $700 for all my machine work and parts I'm prolly forgetting a few things. I'm running around 11.1-11.4:1 CR, with the EQ monster Magnum heads, .258/.268 duration cam with .501/.524 lift with a 212 LSA, Edelbrock air gap, with a 650 Edelbrock avs2 carb, 160 T-stat, hedman long tube headers. I used the LA timing cover and kept all the LA bracketry To use the v belt system. Mopar electronic ignition kit. Took about a year from start to finish. Mostly waiting on the machine shop, and looking for a 360 Magnum cheap enough to rebuild (thanks hey you!!) Now the cam specs are with the Magnum rockers (1.6 ratio) it was originally bought for my 318 LA, my 318 LA was a hyd. Roller. New oil pump, new lifters, new push rods for the cam. I did reuse the rockers, dog bones, and lifter retainer plate. These heads are only good for .525 lift before you need adjustable rockers, yes I know I'm right on the edge. I've got allot more in this build, but if your going to keep the stock efi you won't have near as much as I do. I had to run all new 3/8" fuel line (switched over to 8an fittings) Edelbrock street/strip fuel pump 6.5 psi @110gph. I stuck it in my 91 D150 that was TBI. I didn't build it for mpg, I built it for fun, and it is a fun truck. I wanted the low end torque, pulls like a freight train. Cam is good for 1,500-6,000 rpm. I also threw in a 2,400 stall converter. Only thing I should have done was put it on an engine Dyno. Before I installed it. I still got a little tuning on the carb. But she runs good. Ruined a brand new set of tires in the first 50 miles lol.
 

Last edited by rebeltaz83; 12-08-2019 at 10:24 PM.
  #89  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rebeltaz83
My 360 Magnum build was about $5,000. Only thing I reused was the block, crank, and rods. Had to over bore it .020. I decked the blocked (.040), .020 overbore, cylinder hone (45*cross hatch), polish the crank, install cam bearings, hot tank everything, install the new Pistons on the rods, new bearings(mains/rod),Piston/ring kit, soft plug install came to around $700 for all my machine work and parts I'm prolly forgetting a few things. I'm running around 11.1-11.4:1 CR, with the EQ monster Magnum heads, .258/.268 duration cam with .501/.524 lift with a 212 LSA, Edelbrock air gap, with a 650 Edelbrock avs2 carb, 160 T-stat, hedman long tube headers. I used the LA timing cover and kept all the LA bracketry To use the v belt system. Mopar electronic ignition kit. Took about a year from start to finish. Mostly waiting on the machine shop, and looking for a 360 Magnum cheap enough to rebuild (thanks hey you!!) Now the cam specs are with the Magnum rockers (1.6 ratio) it was originally bought for my 318 LA, my 318 LA was a hyd. Roller. New oil pump, new lifters, new push rods for the cam. I did reuse the rockers, dog bones, and lifter retainer plate. These heads are only good for .525 lift before you need adjustable rockers, yes I know I'm right on the edge. I've got allot more in this build, but if your going to keep the stock efi you won't have near as much as I do. I had to run all new 3/8" fuel line (switched over to 8an fittings) Edelbrock street/strip fuel pump 6.5 psi @110gph. I stuck it in my 91 D150 that was TBI. I didn't build it for mpg, I built it for fun, and it is a fun truck. I wanted the low end torque, pulls like a freight train. Cam is good for 1,500-6,000 rpm. I also threw in a 2,400 stall converter. Only thing I should have done was put it on an engine Dyno. Before I installed it. I still got a little tuning on the carb. But she runs good. Ruined a brand new set of tires in the first 50 miles lol.
Yeah, I had a couple soft quotes on a rebuild that say I should be able to have a fairly capable engine for about $5000, if I keep the stock stroke, and my crank isn't all buggered up. I think I'd like to keep it fairly simple and keep my EFI, or a version of my EFI. I want it to run on 87, and get good mileage. I have a little more fun with vehicles that I will drive daily, and afford to drive daily. Sometimes that might be going on a trip, towing a small travel trailer, or lightly loaded, or sometimes just idling the back roads looking for grouse.
 
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:23 AM
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I'm running on 89 octane, I'm not hearing any pinging. It doesn't pre-detonate but I'm not sure I want to drop to 87 octane. Not sure on gas mileage 9mpg maybe lol. I know I drove to town and back and my gas gauge moved from the 3/4 Mark to a few needle widths before half......... And town is maybe 10 miles 1 way........ But it's hard to stay out of the secondaries lol. I think it has a 22 gallon tank. It took 4, 5 gallon gas cans to fill up from empty.
 


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