Better to swap 5.9L for 4.7L or modify 4.7L for performance?
#1
05-21-2011 | 08:45 AM
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Better to swap 5.9L for 4.7L or modify 4.7L for performance?
Hello All, SORRY FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS POST
I want to start by telling you guys a little about myself so you that you will understand why I have certain gaps in my knowledge. I am a DF noobie posting my first ever thread on any vehicle forum. I am 23 years old and prior to my 18th I had done everything I could possibly think of to avoid personally doing any kind of mechanic work to my vehicles. After turning 18 and becoming responsible for the upkeep and maintenance costs for my truck I rapidly became aware of how expensive it is to take a vehicle to a garage every time something requires service. I let the ”professionals" rape and pillage my bank account up until about two years ago. It was mostly because I had been lead to believe my entire life that vehicle repairs are some-kind of magical entity that only the most intelligent, and experienced people are able to understand and perform. I was able to maintain that illusion until I started questioning the local mechanics as to why every time I brought them a vehicle to work on it generally took 2-3 additional visits and a $hit-load of extra cash to actual resolve the issue. Once I had realized that my nativity had allowed myself to be preyed on like a 19 year old girl at her first frat party, I took closer look at the "professionals". My immaturity allowed me to my place unwavering trust in the hands men that 90% of are nothing more than high school flunkies that lack either the ambition or intelligence to properly perform even the most basic of vehicle repairs! That’s when I started to gradually put together a respectable tool box and due the work myself on all of my vehicle repairs.
With that said, what I would like to know is which of the following two options would be the most cost effective and logical. I have both a 2005 4.7L quad cab 4WD Dakota with around 89,000 miles, and 2005 5.9L Quad cab 4WD Ram 1500 with 103,000 miles. They both primarily function as work trucks that I use mostly to haul tools and materials in 12', 16’ trailers all over the country to different water parks for the business I own. I really like my Dakota and want to start beefing it up a bit. Currently the only performance based modifications I have performed are a K&N CAI, and Flowmaster muffler. The truck sounds extremely mean, but.... It's a 4.7L...... for a V8 it's kind of gutless....
What I don't know is if my dak can fit and handle a hemi. I know that Dodge makes the R/T with a 5.9L but I don’t know how much different everything else about the truck is i.e. transmission, engine compartment, and the rest of the drive train in general. So I'm wondering if it would be cheaper and easier to just alter my current engine to end up with somewhere around 380 hp and if I go that route what else I would have to modify to handle that kind of power.
I understand that either way it is going to be a large undertaking that will require a lot of money and time. I am fortunate to have business which I only work about 5-6 months out of the year and make enough money to live comfortably for the remaining 6-7 months. So the time and money isn’t such an issue. And I am confident that I can figure out the mechanical end after I dive into the project to and take everything apart as I have the ability to visualize the way different components interact with each other and understand the inner workings of almost anything if I decide to set my mind to it. Like said in the first part of this novel... I have only recently become interested automotive modification so I have a few gaps in my knowledge when it comes to certain details that most of you guys probably dismiss as basics. I am the very definition of a hands on learner.
If any of you guys were able to deal with my compulsive rambling long enough read the whole thread, I would greatly appreciate your input and help figuring out where to even start. The internet is so full of opinion based garbage I have a difficult time distinguishing the difference between good information and total B.S. . . .
Sorry again for being so long winded
I want to start by telling you guys a little about myself so you that you will understand why I have certain gaps in my knowledge. I am a DF noobie posting my first ever thread on any vehicle forum. I am 23 years old and prior to my 18th I had done everything I could possibly think of to avoid personally doing any kind of mechanic work to my vehicles. After turning 18 and becoming responsible for the upkeep and maintenance costs for my truck I rapidly became aware of how expensive it is to take a vehicle to a garage every time something requires service. I let the ”professionals" rape and pillage my bank account up until about two years ago. It was mostly because I had been lead to believe my entire life that vehicle repairs are some-kind of magical entity that only the most intelligent, and experienced people are able to understand and perform. I was able to maintain that illusion until I started questioning the local mechanics as to why every time I brought them a vehicle to work on it generally took 2-3 additional visits and a $hit-load of extra cash to actual resolve the issue. Once I had realized that my nativity had allowed myself to be preyed on like a 19 year old girl at her first frat party, I took closer look at the "professionals". My immaturity allowed me to my place unwavering trust in the hands men that 90% of are nothing more than high school flunkies that lack either the ambition or intelligence to properly perform even the most basic of vehicle repairs! That’s when I started to gradually put together a respectable tool box and due the work myself on all of my vehicle repairs.
With that said, what I would like to know is which of the following two options would be the most cost effective and logical. I have both a 2005 4.7L quad cab 4WD Dakota with around 89,000 miles, and 2005 5.9L Quad cab 4WD Ram 1500 with 103,000 miles. They both primarily function as work trucks that I use mostly to haul tools and materials in 12', 16’ trailers all over the country to different water parks for the business I own. I really like my Dakota and want to start beefing it up a bit. Currently the only performance based modifications I have performed are a K&N CAI, and Flowmaster muffler. The truck sounds extremely mean, but.... It's a 4.7L...... for a V8 it's kind of gutless....
What I don't know is if my dak can fit and handle a hemi. I know that Dodge makes the R/T with a 5.9L but I don’t know how much different everything else about the truck is i.e. transmission, engine compartment, and the rest of the drive train in general. So I'm wondering if it would be cheaper and easier to just alter my current engine to end up with somewhere around 380 hp and if I go that route what else I would have to modify to handle that kind of power.
I understand that either way it is going to be a large undertaking that will require a lot of money and time. I am fortunate to have business which I only work about 5-6 months out of the year and make enough money to live comfortably for the remaining 6-7 months. So the time and money isn’t such an issue. And I am confident that I can figure out the mechanical end after I dive into the project to and take everything apart as I have the ability to visualize the way different components interact with each other and understand the inner workings of almost anything if I decide to set my mind to it. Like said in the first part of this novel... I have only recently become interested automotive modification so I have a few gaps in my knowledge when it comes to certain details that most of you guys probably dismiss as basics. I am the very definition of a hands on learner.
If any of you guys were able to deal with my compulsive rambling long enough read the whole thread, I would greatly appreciate your input and help figuring out where to even start. The internet is so full of opinion based garbage I have a difficult time distinguishing the difference between good information and total B.S. . . .
Sorry again for being so long winded
Last edited by wilsonketinc; 05-21-2011 at 08:55 AM.
#2
05-21-2011 | 09:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: South Texas
Your asking the wrong group of people were all dakota fans.
Get a superchips tuner to start off with, then i would do the hhr e-fan conversion followed by a ported throttlebody and headers and custom y-pipe. If your still not happy swap the gears in your differential to 3.92 or 4.10s. From there you add H.O. cams or convert to an 08+ intake manifold.
Get a superchips tuner to start off with, then i would do the hhr e-fan conversion followed by a ported throttlebody and headers and custom y-pipe. If your still not happy swap the gears in your differential to 3.92 or 4.10s. From there you add H.O. cams or convert to an 08+ intake manifold.
Last edited by wingman_214; 05-21-2011 at 09:26 AM. Reason: too early in morning.
#3
05-21-2011 | 09:25 AM
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Posts: n/a
Well, if you are going to be doing the work yourself, I would suggest sticking with the 4.7 and building what you have. A hemi swap is VERY involved. There isnt a "how to" on it.
I am going out on a limb here, but I am guessing you have 3.55 gears. This would make the truck feel gutless. You would be amazed at how much a simple gear change would do to your butt dyno.
As for parts to build with... there has been a lot of discussion on that topic. A big NA build would be something like this.
Cold air intake
08+ Intake manifold and TB adapter
Ported TB
Ported/Polished Head
206 or 212x cams unless you plan on running boost.
ARP headstuds with a MLS head gasket (might as well, while you have the head off.)
Headers
High-flow cat
3 inch exhaust from the headers back.
SCT or Superchips Tunes
3:92 gearing
Electric Fan
180* thermostat
this would net you around 50 extra HP and pretty close to 50TQ... A lot of this stuff builds top end power, but with the gears, you will have plenty of grunt off the line. being as this is a work truck, having power on the highway while pulling a trailer is a good thing, right?
I am going out on a limb here, but I am guessing you have 3.55 gears. This would make the truck feel gutless. You would be amazed at how much a simple gear change would do to your butt dyno.
As for parts to build with... there has been a lot of discussion on that topic. A big NA build would be something like this.
Cold air intake
08+ Intake manifold and TB adapter
Ported TB
Ported/Polished Head
206 or 212x cams unless you plan on running boost.
ARP headstuds with a MLS head gasket (might as well, while you have the head off.)
Headers
High-flow cat
3 inch exhaust from the headers back.
SCT or Superchips Tunes
3:92 gearing
Electric Fan
180* thermostat
this would net you around 50 extra HP and pretty close to 50TQ... A lot of this stuff builds top end power, but with the gears, you will have plenty of grunt off the line. being as this is a work truck, having power on the highway while pulling a trailer is a good thing, right?
#4
05-21-2011 | 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 373
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From: New Jersey
#5
05-21-2011 | 04:01 PM
Grand Champion
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,293
Likes: 3
From: Kekaha, HI
If you are considering an engine swap I would look into a Hemi. When you look at CI vs power vs aftermarket support the Hemi's are the way to go. Plus they are compatable with your NGC PCM where the 5.9L is JTEC.
For the 4.7L there are a lot of power adders available. However they do cost more and the 4.7L doesn't have near the aftermarket support the Hemi's do.
For the 4.7L there are a lot of power adders available. However they do cost more and the 4.7L doesn't have near the aftermarket support the Hemi's do.