Thanks CMil. I'll try to keep the show going for ya guys.

That's great. Who is busting who's ***** here. Last time I checked you would have to be able to read to be ASE certified. Or a "TECH" or whatever. I said 10% being left IN THE FILTER as well as the CRANKCASE. So you are saying that it's impossible for 1/4 of 1 quart to be left in an elevated vehicles oil pan? Show me proof. I know from my " experiment " that when I raised the vehicle from a level position After draining, that more oil came out. How much? MORE. I had no idea that someone would be so obsessed with proving me wrong. I know what my next " experiment" will be. I will jack up the front of my D, drain the oil till it runs dry . Then I will lower the vehicle and in another container I will collect any remaining oil in the pan. Then I will pull and drain my filter in that pan. I should have between 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart in that pan.10% by your math. And I will waste all of my own damn time If i want. And again the reading thing. " I waxed and detailed my ride" in that 8 hours so no I didn't waste a second.

So thanks DJ for letting me know that you've only been a tech for 10 years or so. I'll remember that you have " way" less automotive experience than I do when you post something I may or may not find interesting.

P.s is working at JIFFY LUBE exciting?

 

Felt a little bad on that one. Maybe it's just a communication barrier. Let's look at a key word here. CAPACITY. here is the definition for you relating to our conversations. THE MAXIMUM THAT CAN BE HELD. Using this definition, LOGIC would tell us that if something has a CAPACITY " word for the day guys" it must have a volume. Volume in turn Is meaningless unless the unit of volume is also known. In this case OIL IN QUARTS. the maximum VOLUME of the complete oil system is not known. I would imagine that you could keep filling the crankcase with oil until it spilled out of the valve cover.
Regardless CAPACITY IS KNOWN. or so we think. If you add oil exceeding the " hash marks on the dipstick you have effectively overfilled your CAPACITY.we know that running your engine on oil below the hash marks is effectively under filled. How do we know that? Well your engine will begin to " tick" an indication that you are begining to starve the top end of oil. Also your low oil light can come on just under this mark. So using the words VOLUME AND CAPACITY we can deduce that the add mark is lower than you should operate your engine and the high mark." the top of the hash marks means you are Full. I'm sure that you've noticed that some automobiles actually use the words FULL at the top of the hash marks. HUH go figure. If you read your owners manual of you might even notice that it says not to exceed the hash marks. FULL. and goes on to give advise about how adding one quart in the add portion of the dipstick will bring you to the FULL mark. Ah yes MAXIMUM CAPACITY. can you operate your car anywhere in the hash marks? Yes, yes you can.
Mine came FULL at the top of the hash marks so that's where I will keep mine. FULL

 

This is what YOU said, which I was replying too. You said nothing about an oil filter until after I replied to this comment. And even still, after draining the system, what is in the filter has no bearing on what is being drained through the drain plug. So this 10% you are now trying to claim you meant was "in the filter" still wouldn't matter in helping your point, since once you remove the filter that "10%" would be gone.

Then this:

Nice attempt at back tracking here, but it don't add up! When people drain oil "like normal", they tend to change the filter as well, which will retrieve more like 97-98% of oil!




I didn't say 1/4 of a quart. I said 3/4 of a quart which is 10% of the 7.5 quarts that you say the engine holds. Go back and read. And when I said "there's no way 3/4 of a quart is staying in the pan whether you jack it up, leave it flat or whatever!", I was referring to you jacking up the truck from the rear as mentioned in your first post. Engines are designed to be drained on level surface. They aren't gonna design an oil pan than leaves behind nearly a full quart after a proper drain. Jacking up from the rear after a proper drain helps remove a little more oil, but it won't be 3/4 of a quart. It may an half ounce to an ounce at most.

And I wasn't "trying to prove you wrong"! I simply said your experiment was overkill just to find a simple liquid volume and mentioned what you could have done to save time. Then you started popping off with your vast oil changing knowledge! And yeah, you wasted time with all the excess jacking, raising draining, measuring. You could have done an oil change and detail in 4-5 hours if you weren't busy trying to prove wrong engineers that are far smarter than you will ever be!



It's funny how you have no intelligence at all and obviously know nothing about cars so you have to resort to personal insults to prove a point! Yeah, you look so much smarter now! Great job! You must be on steroids with how upset you are over this discussion! Don't break your little keyboard over there!



Again, if 7 quarts puts you in that hash mark, the manual is correct! If 7 quarts puts you at the ADD mark or lower, then the manual is incorrect. Everything else you just blabbered off is irrelevant as the level is not required to be at that top "full" mark to operate safely. In fact, every fluid in the car has a full range and does not need to be at the very top of the mark. You don't need to know the entire system volume/capacity. You only need to know the operating volume/capacity, which is what is in the manual!

Do I fill my engines to the very top of the line? Yes. My point is simply that just because you drained 7.5 quarts from your engine doesn't mean that the manual is wrong in saying 7 quarts is the capacity. It's very likely that if 7.5 quarts puts you directly at the top of the mark, then removing .5 would put you right around the center of the hash mark, which would make the manual in fact 100% correct! You are trying to argue against not only simple logic here, but basic automotive principles!

 

AND FINTAN.Wow, great write up man, just like all your others, keep em coming man

Maybe I saved these guys a trip to the auto parts store to buy more oil. I know I would have been less then thrilled to find out that if I wanted to bring the oil up to the same level that my Durango arrived with, then the owners manual would be wrong. Thanks guys!

Ill remember next time to take a poll before I WASTE MY OWN TIME doing something with my D.

If anyone is interested, there was a great article posted by the SAE in 2002 that listed several concerns regarding auto manufacturers use of verbiage in owners manuals about oil level. Apparently people were over filling there engines when they would stop for gas and check their oil on a fully warmed engine. Lots of manufacturers have gone away from listing anything but ADD on the dipstick or in half of Chrysler's new engines they just have a double hump with the lower reading add. DO YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR OIL FULL TO OPERATE YOUR ENGINE? NO. as long as you are in the safe zone you will be just fine. I appreciate the guys who questioned the manual on a previous thread when they realized after an oil change the level was NOT THE SAME when they took it in for service. This prompted me to investigate further and I am satisfied with my findings.

Here are some blips and pics from service manuals I have. Also the majority of vehicles in my possession read Full or H on the oil dipstick. Both my GM tech manuals describe when servicing any part of the oil system to bring the oil level up to the FULL mark before completion.