I did some testing with my new 08 QC Big Horn 4x4 4.7L when I first got it. After three straight tanks of E85 (winter blend is 75% Eth/25% 87 Octane No Lead, by the way), I got an average of 11 MPG, calculated, not by the headliner console. Three straight tanks of 87 Octane (10% Eth) and my average was a touch over 17MPG.

That's about in line with what I expected. Ethanol just does not create the same energy when burned that Gasoline does. It DOES increase octane very well (E85 has a minimum of 105 Octane), but at a noticable loss in thermal efficiency.

Right now all fuel grade ethanol is produced from corn, pretty much the same as it would be distilled for corn whiskey. Once the process for cellulosic ethanol gets perfected (and they're close), Ethanol will be able to be mass produced from just about any high cellulose content plant, like switchgrass, using the rest of the corn plant that's currently not used in production, and some say even municipal waste may possibly be used. It's very possible Ethanol production costs could plummet, making Ethanol about a dollar or more cheaper than it is right now.

Bottom line: Right now E85 just doesn't give the MPG per dollar spent to justify it's use. A 30% hit in miles per gallon for a measly savings of $ 0.30 a gallon just doesn't do it for me. However, in the near future, E85 may well be cheap enough that the 30% loss of MPG will be more than offset by the difference in price between E85 and 87 Octane Pump Gas.

By the way, I'm more than a little familiar with Ethanol & fuel in general, as it's my job.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said. Ethanol is a hoax. Less energy and costs more to produce than gasoline.

 

here is some good info about e-85:
http://www.eco-flex.us/pages/E85_facts.htm

 

Some of that is rather misleading. E85 generally = 85% Ethanol + 15% Gasoline, but that ratio changes throughout the year. Depending on the season, the blend will vary from 85/15 in the summer months down to 75/25 or even 70/30 in winter in colder climates.

As far as any other additives in E85, that's pretty much a fallacy, as E85 made simply by mixing the correct ratio of gasoline to ethanol. The additives are already in the gasoline before it's mixed with the ethanol, and any additives are therefore going to be more diluted than with conventional or +10% Ethanol Gasoline.

As far as Ethanol being more efficient? Far from it. Burning quicker does NOT equate to being more efficient. The longer/slower a fuel burns the more power it has an opportunity to make in an engine. Ethanol does burn more quickly than gasoline, and in the process, spends less time thermally expanding inside the cylinder during the combustion/power stroke of the 4-stroke engine cycle.


The comment about is a fallacy as well. Roughly a 30% drop in MPG with only a $0.30 difference in price per gallon (about 8% difference in price @ $3.65/gallon) makes E85 FAR more costly per mile at the moment.


[IMG]local://upfiles/87263/926E01E212AF40EEA095468BF0E0833B.jpg[/IMG]

 

You guys are all talking about this stuff, but I don't know where you get it. In California there is only one or two gas stations that sell ethanol and none of them are anywhere close to me by far(500MI0...

 

Ethanol is destroying the gulf of Mexico, there is a 7,500 mile dead zone in the gulf because of Ethanol. Bold statement I know, but give me a chance to explain.

Ethanol is produced primarily from corn. Corn growing requires nitrogen rich soil to properly grow. The infusion of nitrogen based fertilizers to lands that normaly get crop rotation to other crops fertilized with other nutrients has caused excessive run off of nitrogen fertilizers into inland waterways, which filter down to the major waterways like the Mississippi river. They are then transported to the Gulf of Mexico, where they are doing massive ecological damage. These "dead zones" are nitrogen rich enough to displace the oxygen in the water completely. Killing everything in its path. Plankton, Fish, shell fish,and crustations all suffer complete genocide in these zones. The tree huggers are worried about the rise of 1/4degree in temprature per hundred years, and completely ignoring A major threat to our oceans! Which will do more damage? 1 degree rise in temprature in the next 100 years or the loss of our food source in the Gulf?

Think about it when your Congressman votes yes to subsidize corn production for Ethanol!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._deadzone.html

 

I believe it, Horseapples. It's also one of the factors affecting the price of food as well. Farmers are finding more $$$ in growing corn varieties for ethanol production, rather than food crops. The biggest problem right now is that the ethanol industry is completely dependant on corn, instead of a variety of crops for raw material. Hopefully this cellulosic ethanol thing will take off quickly, and return these lands to crop rotation, as they should be.

The really nice thing about cellulosic ethanol production, I think, is that it can use plants that thrive in areas that are much less friendly to food crops in general. Rocky, sandy soil isn't great for a farmer growing corn, beans, zuchini, or what-have-you, but it's great for switchgrass and other almost weed-like plants that would be outstanding material for ethanol production. It would open up areas thought to be crap for farming up to a good cash crop, and allow better lands to be used for food crops.

 

I've been running E10 in my Ram because that is about all there is around my area. I have noticed a 3-5 mpg drop in the past few months. I can't see how ethanol has many benefits when you are just burning more gas, thus increasing demand. Sounds like another bunch of BS to me.

 

The truth of the matter is ethanol is not an answer to our fuel problems, more so just a big bandage. EV's are the only true fix. As soon as america begins to trust electric vehicles there will be no such thing as a fuel shortage until the sun burns out and the winds stop blowing. However in the spirit of discussion here is an interesting site to check out http://www.efuel100.com/. Talk about a full serve gas station! On and did I mention that there is a federal tax break for ethanol http://www.doe.gov/taxbreaks.htm most states also have tax breaks. Imagine a gas station that only takes delivery of sugar and is powerd by photovoltaic cells and wind turbines, a tree huggers wet dream. Now a real solution can be seen here, http://www.nanosolar.com/ or http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/03/24/solar-power-without-a-solar-panel/. Just imagine an affordable product that not only prevents corrosion on your vehicle but also charges the battery on the run.

Has anyone considered setting up a bulk purchase of ethanol/methanol? I am very interested.

 

and by the way, there is no risk of damage to any vehicle when running on E10 E85 or E100. Who ever said that only a flex-fuel vehicle can run on these fuels was mistaken. A Flex-Fuel vehicle means that it can run on any fuel, at any time, with no modifications. When ethanol is used as a fuel there needs to be more fuel injected into the cylinder. A Flex-Fuel vehicle will automaticly adjust the amount of fuel being pumped into the cylinder. A non Flex vehicle needs to be either retrofitted to perform this task or if you plan to run E85/E100 you can boost the pressure on your fuel pump to match your fuel choice. In other words tell the fuel pump to give the engine more fuel and you can transfor your gas guzzler into a " it's 12 o'clock somewhere alcoholic".

Now I know someone is going to say "well if ya change the fuel pump then ya cant use gas-O-leen ne more", well you couldnt use alcohol before and if youre not planning on busting out the big bucks for a brand new EV then trust me, you will apreciate it when gas hits $6.00 a gallon next summer. Not to mention the fact that there is a tax rebate (federal and in most cases state) per gallon of the stuff. After all that, ethanol will also remove most of the gunk all of that gasoline has left behind.