Electric Fan and Towing
#21
10-23-2007, 10:25 AM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
Fans aren't needed once speeds top about 40 mph. At that point, far more air is being shoved through the radiator than any fan could ever provide.
E-fans provide real-world benefits over a clutch fan, and these points have been made earlier in this thread. I can't see any situation where a properly sized E-fan would be inferior to the cluch fan, even while towing. If the E-fan is delivering 100% airflow at all times while the clutch fan varies by engine speed, the E-fan is doing more cooling.
Meanwhile, I'll trust a thermostat to turn my fan off/on in a far more controlled manner than a viscous clutch. You never know exactly how well your fan clutch works till it dies. I converted my old GMC to E-fan and I expect to do the same with my Ram soon enough.
E-fans provide real-world benefits over a clutch fan, and these points have been made earlier in this thread. I can't see any situation where a properly sized E-fan would be inferior to the cluch fan, even while towing. If the E-fan is delivering 100% airflow at all times while the clutch fan varies by engine speed, the E-fan is doing more cooling.
Meanwhile, I'll trust a thermostat to turn my fan off/on in a far more controlled manner than a viscous clutch. You never know exactly how well your fan clutch works till it dies. I converted my old GMC to E-fan and I expect to do the same with my Ram soon enough.
#22
10-23-2007, 03:00 PM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
I wouldn't recommend that experiment unless I had done it myself for long periods of time,
as you can find with the search button.
For example, I first ran 214 miles on I40 in NC in the fall testing with, and then another 214 miles without the fan in place to estimate the mpg savings at a steady 70 mph.
I left the engine idling in park without a fan,
both in NC 30-60 degree weather
and later in FL in 70 to 90 degree weatherto see how high the temperature would go.
I recorded the gallons per hour the engine used at idle at various temperatures and found that the higher the coolant temperature the lower the fuel consumption during idle.
But...it is true that I had Evans NPG waterless coolant in the engine as a kind of insurance policy. This special coolant does not begin to boil until 360 degrees F, but each gallon can not carry away as much heat as pure water.
Further use of the search button (or Google search) will show that several Cummins Ram owners also run without a fan in winter.
I will admit that those Cummins Ram owners who ran without a fan,
plus an article at Evans Cooling about a Ford engineer who was running NPG coolant at higher coolant temperatures without a fan,
plus discussions I had at Oak Ridge National HTML lab years ago with guys who were trying to build ceramic engine blocks and pistons,
...these gave me more confidence to run the experiments I ran with my 1995 Magnum 5.9V8 Ram.
I understand why typical Ram owners would be worried,
and suggest that those worried
not do modifications or run experiments
until they gain more knowledge & experience.
as you can find with the search button.
For example, I first ran 214 miles on I40 in NC in the fall testing with, and then another 214 miles without the fan in place to estimate the mpg savings at a steady 70 mph.
I left the engine idling in park without a fan,
both in NC 30-60 degree weather
and later in FL in 70 to 90 degree weatherto see how high the temperature would go.
I recorded the gallons per hour the engine used at idle at various temperatures and found that the higher the coolant temperature the lower the fuel consumption during idle.
But...it is true that I had Evans NPG waterless coolant in the engine as a kind of insurance policy. This special coolant does not begin to boil until 360 degrees F, but each gallon can not carry away as much heat as pure water.
Further use of the search button (or Google search) will show that several Cummins Ram owners also run without a fan in winter.
I will admit that those Cummins Ram owners who ran without a fan,
plus an article at Evans Cooling about a Ford engineer who was running NPG coolant at higher coolant temperatures without a fan,
plus discussions I had at Oak Ridge National HTML lab years ago with guys who were trying to build ceramic engine blocks and pistons,
...these gave me more confidence to run the experiments I ran with my 1995 Magnum 5.9V8 Ram.
I understand why typical Ram owners would be worried,
and suggest that those worried
not do modifications or run experiments
until they gain more knowledge & experience.
#24
10-23-2007, 11:01 PM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
I have seen smaller diameter pusher (versus puller)fans mounted on the front of the radiator. This would seem to be the best option as it leaves the stock fan in place. Granted thoughit does not free up HP as the stocker is still in place. It would seem to help by keeping the temps somewhat lower and allowing the viscuous cluch to slip more reducing the stock fan drag (possibly freeing up HP)at moderate temps andlower speedswhile retaining its functionality if the temps continue to rise. It looks like there would be plenty of room for this on a 3rd gen.
#25
10-24-2007, 06:12 AM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
In their official press releases
Dodge has said the 4.7V8 has a special 'high slip' viscous clutch
that turns at something like 470 rpm
and that they could use this slower fan
because of the other electrical fan.
I have not investigated whether this viscous clutch would fit other engines
but perhaps someone interested could explore that.
It is also possible that viscous clutches from other automakers are inter-changeable.
Dodge has said the 4.7V8 has a special 'high slip' viscous clutch
that turns at something like 470 rpm
and that they could use this slower fan
because of the other electrical fan.
I have not investigated whether this viscous clutch would fit other engines
but perhaps someone interested could explore that.
It is also possible that viscous clutches from other automakers are inter-changeable.
#26
10-24-2007, 06:37 AM
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RE: Electric Fan and Towing
ORIGINAL: FSUHEMI
does anyone know if HankL even owns a Ram? He's posted under almost every forum from neon to cummings....
does anyone know if HankL even owns a Ram? He's posted under almost every forum from neon to cummings....
LoL, prolly not.
He is one of those people that probably has no real life friends because of his "I'm better than you" negative attitude, so he exploits internetforums like this for attention.
Just put him on Ignore like most of us have done.
#27
10-24-2007, 08:45 AM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
ORIGINAL: Pappy_FB
LoL, prolly not.
He is one of those people that probably has no real life friends because of his "I'm better than you" negative attitude, so he exploits internetforums like this for attention.
Just put him on Ignore like most of us have done.
LoL, prolly not.
He is one of those people that probably has no real life friends because of his "I'm better than you" negative attitude, so he exploits internetforums like this for attention.
Just put him on Ignore like most of us have done.
#28
10-24-2007, 11:15 AM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
This ought to be common sense and obvious
but I am fully a human being
fully capable of making mistakes every day
...which I certainly do.....
and I regularly go out on the open ocean
or in special places like the Nantahala Wilderness
and look up at the stars
and ponder how small I am
compared to all there is
and how little I know
and how short my life will be....
just like any other life.
What I know...both technical facts and spiritual hunches...
could fit on a single Blue Ray DVD.
If you took what I don't know
and began putting it on DVDs and dropping them into the Grand Canyon,
the mighty awe inspiring canyon would soon fill to the brim
and you wouldn't even be started on the complete job!
I do believe in not being lazy
and striving every day to learn what
our grandfathers, fathers, and own generation has learned.
Even in this striving, we always come up a bit short.
Many of the people who get mad about MERE WORDS in a post of mine,
are getting mad because they have made a foolish purchase,
and have been 'suckered' out of money
that could have been spent on something else more effective.
But that does not mean that I spend money perfectly
or that I have never been suckered.
My posts...such as the Ram MPG FAQ that is so long...
and the long...Magnum Engine Sparkplug FAQ...
have plenty of admissions along the lines of:
"I tried this and it did not work and my money and time was wasted, so beware of making a similar mistake."
The recent post of about changing out the ball joints on the front of my Ram told of multiple trips back to parts stores looking for the correct tools, busting knuckles, bleeding, cussing...and finally adapting and learning from mistakes until the job got done.
Many of the people whining and carrying on,
when they read a post that makes plain a mistake that applies to them,
have not learned how to
'let go of past'
and carry on with life.
All humans will have pasts full of mistakes.
The proverb:
"That water has passed under the bridge"
applies to us all.
Another old proverb is:
"Don't Shoot the Messenger"
How does one seek courage second by second?
Facing mistakes as they come,
and then striving to do better,
taking responsability completely for one's decisions
not blaming someone else
that is catching courage droplet by tiny droplet.
Shooting the messenger is cowardice on the part of the shooter.
but I am fully a human being
fully capable of making mistakes every day
...which I certainly do.....
and I regularly go out on the open ocean
or in special places like the Nantahala Wilderness
and look up at the stars
and ponder how small I am
compared to all there is
and how little I know
and how short my life will be....
just like any other life.
What I know...both technical facts and spiritual hunches...
could fit on a single Blue Ray DVD.
If you took what I don't know
and began putting it on DVDs and dropping them into the Grand Canyon,
the mighty awe inspiring canyon would soon fill to the brim
and you wouldn't even be started on the complete job!
I do believe in not being lazy
and striving every day to learn what
our grandfathers, fathers, and own generation has learned.
Even in this striving, we always come up a bit short.
Many of the people who get mad about MERE WORDS in a post of mine,
are getting mad because they have made a foolish purchase,
and have been 'suckered' out of money
that could have been spent on something else more effective.
But that does not mean that I spend money perfectly
or that I have never been suckered.
My posts...such as the Ram MPG FAQ that is so long...
and the long...Magnum Engine Sparkplug FAQ...
have plenty of admissions along the lines of:
"I tried this and it did not work and my money and time was wasted, so beware of making a similar mistake."
The recent post of about changing out the ball joints on the front of my Ram told of multiple trips back to parts stores looking for the correct tools, busting knuckles, bleeding, cussing...and finally adapting and learning from mistakes until the job got done.
Many of the people whining and carrying on,
when they read a post that makes plain a mistake that applies to them,
have not learned how to
'let go of past'
and carry on with life.
All humans will have pasts full of mistakes.
The proverb:
"That water has passed under the bridge"
applies to us all.
Another old proverb is:
"Don't Shoot the Messenger"
How does one seek courage second by second?
Facing mistakes as they come,
and then striving to do better,
taking responsability completely for one's decisions
not blaming someone else
that is catching courage droplet by tiny droplet.
Shooting the messenger is cowardice on the part of the shooter.
#29
10-24-2007, 01:30 PM
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
ORIGINAL: HankL
This ought to be common sense and obvious
but I am fully a human being
fully capable of making mistakes every day
...which I certainly do.....
and I regularly go out on the open ocean
or in special places like the Nantahala Wilderness
and look up at the stars
and ponder how small I am
compared to all there is
and how little I know
and how short my life will be....
just like any other life.
What I know...both technical facts and spiritual hunches...
could fit on a single Blue Ray DVD.
If you took what I don't know
and began putting it on DVDs and dropping them into the Grand Canyon,
the mighty awe inspiring canyon would soon fill to the brim
and you wouldn't even be started on the complete job!
I do believe in not being lazy
and striving every day to learn what
our grandfathers, fathers, and own generation has learned.
Even in this striving, we always come up a bit short.
Many of the people who get mad about MERE WORDS in a post of mine,
are getting mad because they have made a foolish purchase,
and have been 'suckered' out of money
that could have been spent on something else more effective.
But that does not mean that I spend money perfectly
or that I have never been suckered.
My posts...such as the Ram MPG FAQ that is so long...
and the long...Magnum Engine Sparkplug FAQ...
have plenty of admissions along the lines of:
"I tried this and it did not work and my money and time was wasted, so beware of making a similar mistake."
The recent post of about changing out the ball joints on the front of my Ram told of multiple trips back to parts stores looking for the correct tools, busting knuckles, bleeding, cussing...and finally adapting and learning from mistakes until the job got done.
Many of the people whining and carrying on,
when they read a post that makes plain a mistake that applies to them,
have not learned how to
'let go of past'
and carry on with life.
All humans will have pasts full of mistakes.
The proverb:
"That water has passed under the bridge"
applies to us all.
Another old proverb is:
"Don't Shoot the Messenger"
How does one seek courage second by second?
Facing mistakes as they come,
and then striving to do better,
taking responsability completely for one's decisions
not blaming someone else
that is catching courage droplet by tiny droplet.
Shooting the messenger is cowardice on the part of the shooter.
This ought to be common sense and obvious
but I am fully a human being
fully capable of making mistakes every day
...which I certainly do.....
and I regularly go out on the open ocean
or in special places like the Nantahala Wilderness
and look up at the stars
and ponder how small I am
compared to all there is
and how little I know
and how short my life will be....
just like any other life.
What I know...both technical facts and spiritual hunches...
could fit on a single Blue Ray DVD.
If you took what I don't know
and began putting it on DVDs and dropping them into the Grand Canyon,
the mighty awe inspiring canyon would soon fill to the brim
and you wouldn't even be started on the complete job!
I do believe in not being lazy
and striving every day to learn what
our grandfathers, fathers, and own generation has learned.
Even in this striving, we always come up a bit short.
Many of the people who get mad about MERE WORDS in a post of mine,
are getting mad because they have made a foolish purchase,
and have been 'suckered' out of money
that could have been spent on something else more effective.
But that does not mean that I spend money perfectly
or that I have never been suckered.
My posts...such as the Ram MPG FAQ that is so long...
and the long...Magnum Engine Sparkplug FAQ...
have plenty of admissions along the lines of:
"I tried this and it did not work and my money and time was wasted, so beware of making a similar mistake."
The recent post of about changing out the ball joints on the front of my Ram told of multiple trips back to parts stores looking for the correct tools, busting knuckles, bleeding, cussing...and finally adapting and learning from mistakes until the job got done.
Many of the people whining and carrying on,
when they read a post that makes plain a mistake that applies to them,
have not learned how to
'let go of past'
and carry on with life.
All humans will have pasts full of mistakes.
The proverb:
"That water has passed under the bridge"
applies to us all.
Another old proverb is:
"Don't Shoot the Messenger"
How does one seek courage second by second?
Facing mistakes as they come,
and then striving to do better,
taking responsability completely for one's decisions
not blaming someone else
that is catching courage droplet by tiny droplet.
Shooting the messenger is cowardice on the part of the shooter.
.....what?
#30
10-24-2007, 01:42 PM
Record Breaker
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,283
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Received 0 Likes
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0 Posts
RE: Electric Fan and Towing
How original. 
I think everyone is accountable for their words. Even if theybring them from another web site in the form of a link.
Shooting the messenger is cowardice on the part of the shooter.
Here I have some quotes for ya.
“Go tell the Spartans!”
“This is Sparta!” -- Boot to the chest.
I think everyone is accountable for their words. Even if theybring them from another web site in the form of a link.
Shooting the messenger is cowardice on the part of the shooter.
Here I have some quotes for ya.
“Go tell the Spartans!”
“This is Sparta!” -- Boot to the chest.