Push Button 4x4
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RE: Push Button 4x4
Well, I guess the fact that I am a Mechanical Engineer qualifies me to say this. I am sure that everyone has heard that, " The fewer parts and simplier design, the more reliable". Well, with the floor shift there is a linkage and the source of Force for the system comes from , well, elbow mussle all using very few parts and very few places for failure. The electronic has the twist on the dash, an elctronic system, and if you have ever opened up an electronic controlled motor, there are very many parts. SO, with the electronic system, you have electronics that can fail, contact points at both the source and motor that can go bad, mechanical twist ****, linkage to the transfer case and a host of mechanical parts in that motor versus just a linkage for the transfer case on the floor mounted. NOw you can use probabilty to show the estimated reliability. Does this help on the idea that the floor mounted is more reliable. As for the mannual locking hubs that you had a problem with, I think that you may have missed my point. I said that the mannual are more reliable, not that they never break. The same applies to electronic vs mannual tranfer case shifers. You must also remeber that the elctronic system in referance to this thread not only has a electronic system but a much more complex mecchanical system as well. I am sure that there are many people I can find that have had problems with one or the other. The simple point is that both can break, just that the more complex, more parts and more sensitive components you add to a system, the more likely failure will take place. I am sorry that you have had a problem with mannual locking hubs, but I have had them on 4 different trucks and all 4 never had a problem with them. I can also tell you of multiple friends that had vehicles of the same make model and year that went trough 2 sets of automatic hubs before buying a conversion kit to mannual where they had no problems. If Dodge made a manual hub option on my truck, I probably would have bought it. I also have a friend that is a ford mechanic, I know what you are thinking, well its a ford. We have spoke many times on the electronic controled hubs and transfer cases where has told me to always go manual, they rarely have a problem versus the elctroc controled systes come in all the time.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
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From: Weir, MS
RE: Push Button 4x4
What is the deal with all wheel drive. The dealer told me that putting mine in 4hi locks all four wheels.(same with 4lo) All four wheels spin in the mud and given the right treads its a force to be reckoned with. The shift on the fly is great. If i see mud comin up all i do is turn the **** and as long as i'm goin below 55mph its all good. Anyone know if these 05's come with lockers?
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Joined: Feb 2005
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RE: Push Button 4x4
ORIGINAL: HEMI_OFF_ROAD
Well, I guess the fact that I am a Mechanical Engineer qualifies me to say this. I am sure that everyone has heard that, " The fewer parts and simplier design, the more reliable". Well, with the floor shift there is a linkage and the source of Force for the system comes from , well, elbow mussle all using very few parts and very few places for failure. The electronic has the twist on the dash, an elctronic system, and if you have ever opened up an electronic controlled motor, there are very many parts. SO, with the electronic system, you have electronics that can fail, contact points at both the source and motor that can go bad, mechanical twist ****, linkage to the transfer case and a host of mechanical parts in that motor versus just a linkage for the transfer case on the floor mounted. NOw you can use probabilty to show the estimated reliability. Does this help on the idea that the floor mounted is more reliable. As for the mannual locking hubs that you had a problem with, I think that you may have missed my point. I said that the mannual are more reliable, not that they never break. The same applies to electronic vs mannual tranfer case shifers. You must also remeber that the elctronic system in referance to this thread not only has a electronic system but a much more complex mecchanical system as well. I am sure that there are many people I can find that have had problems with one or the other. The simple point is that both can break, just that the more complex, more parts and more sensitive components you add to a system, the more likely failure will take place. I am sorry that you have had a problem with mannual locking hubs, but I have had them on 4 different trucks and all 4 never had a problem with them. I can also tell you of multiple friends that had vehicles of the same make model and year that went trough 2 sets of automatic hubs before buying a conversion kit to mannual where they had no problems. If Dodge made a manual hub option on my truck, I probably would have bought it. I also have a friend that is a ford mechanic, I know what you are thinking, well its a ford. We have spoke many times on the electronic controled hubs and transfer cases where has told me to always go manual, they rarely have a problem versus the elctroc controled systes come in all the time.
Well, I guess the fact that I am a Mechanical Engineer qualifies me to say this. I am sure that everyone has heard that, " The fewer parts and simplier design, the more reliable". Well, with the floor shift there is a linkage and the source of Force for the system comes from , well, elbow mussle all using very few parts and very few places for failure. The electronic has the twist on the dash, an elctronic system, and if you have ever opened up an electronic controlled motor, there are very many parts. SO, with the electronic system, you have electronics that can fail, contact points at both the source and motor that can go bad, mechanical twist ****, linkage to the transfer case and a host of mechanical parts in that motor versus just a linkage for the transfer case on the floor mounted. NOw you can use probabilty to show the estimated reliability. Does this help on the idea that the floor mounted is more reliable. As for the mannual locking hubs that you had a problem with, I think that you may have missed my point. I said that the mannual are more reliable, not that they never break. The same applies to electronic vs mannual tranfer case shifers. You must also remeber that the elctronic system in referance to this thread not only has a electronic system but a much more complex mecchanical system as well. I am sure that there are many people I can find that have had problems with one or the other. The simple point is that both can break, just that the more complex, more parts and more sensitive components you add to a system, the more likely failure will take place. I am sorry that you have had a problem with mannual locking hubs, but I have had them on 4 different trucks and all 4 never had a problem with them. I can also tell you of multiple friends that had vehicles of the same make model and year that went trough 2 sets of automatic hubs before buying a conversion kit to mannual where they had no problems. If Dodge made a manual hub option on my truck, I probably would have bought it. I also have a friend that is a ford mechanic, I know what you are thinking, well its a ford. We have spoke many times on the electronic controled hubs and transfer cases where has told me to always go manual, they rarely have a problem versus the elctroc controled systes come in all the time.
In 21 years as an electrical/mechanical technician on fighter and cargo aircraft mechanical components were much more likley to fail that electrical or electronic components. Though I don't know your skills, I've worked with too many Engineers to be impressed with a title.
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Joined: May 2005
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RE: Push Button 4x4
Don, I wasnt trying to impress you with a title. I was only trying to show that I am not an idiot when it comes to Mechanical systems. Take it for what its worth, I am not here to impress anyone. While you can downplay Engineers, I am sure that I have just as many stories about some of the Technicians I have met. I am not trying to downgrade your knowledge or even pick a battle on it. I was only trying to point out how the floor mounted shifter is more reliable (Credibility should always be given when giving opinions). As for the Electrical, my experience has been that electrical wiring and compnents can be very reliable when protected from the environment. However, wiring and components are not very good when they are mounted underneath the vehicle being exposed to elements. I realize that there are many wires for the truck underneath an there are many things that can be done to protect them but the fewer the better. Especially if you go off road (which 4x4 was meant to do) you will only speed up this process. Wire connections corroding, split insulation, bad grounds, etc.... are just some of the things that I have seen with wiring on 4x4 trucks over time. No, it probably wont give any problems today or tommorow, but I plan on keeping my truck for about 6 years. Thats good enough for me not to want the electronic switch. I only fear that by the time I buy my next truck, manual shift 4x4 probably wont be an option because of all the soccer moms out there now buying trucks thinking that they for some reason need 4x4 to pic up groceries from the store.
Champion
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 2
From: Skagit County, WA
RE: Push Button 4x4
Ok some of you know I was agonizing over what to buy and I ended up getting a dakota 5.9 quad cab 4x4 instead of a tundra. I wanted something not-quite full sized that I could haul people in as well as taking stuff to the dump or home from the hardware store without messing up the inside (SUV). I really wanted the manual lever because there are very few parts to break. I suppose you could break a linkage or a mounting bolt, but that's about all there is to fail. My Ram had the vacuum CAD, but I've replaced it with a cable from 4x4posi-lok, and it had full time locked in hubs, but they were somehow missing parts so I've got Warn premium manual hubs now. When I ask for 4 wheel drive, I get it. Period. Yes, there are more steps to make it work, but it works.
Enter the Dakota with the stupid assed electronic shift mechanism. I've owned the thing for a month (it's a 2002), put it in 4wd once to make sure it worked, and when I needed it, nothing. Thank you for the failure, it is reassuring me of my opinions. So now I've got a 2wd truck that rides like a 4x4. Could I pull that 21' Chris Craft out of the lake? Nope, tire just spun. So what happened? I dropped the boat back in the lake and went home and I got my Ram and put it in 4low and it crawled right out, barely off idle.
Nobody will ever be able to convince me that an electronic shift system is more reliable than a manual one. Electronic ones have motors, wires, contacts, switches, and circuits to fail instead of a couple of metal rods. [:@]
Enter the Dakota with the stupid assed electronic shift mechanism. I've owned the thing for a month (it's a 2002), put it in 4wd once to make sure it worked, and when I needed it, nothing. Thank you for the failure, it is reassuring me of my opinions. So now I've got a 2wd truck that rides like a 4x4. Could I pull that 21' Chris Craft out of the lake? Nope, tire just spun. So what happened? I dropped the boat back in the lake and went home and I got my Ram and put it in 4low and it crawled right out, barely off idle.
Nobody will ever be able to convince me that an electronic shift system is more reliable than a manual one. Electronic ones have motors, wires, contacts, switches, and circuits to fail instead of a couple of metal rods. [:@]
Record Breaker
Joined: Sep 2004
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RE: Push Button 4x4
HRm...
when i was buying my truck, we test drove a black one and it had electronic shift 4x4, and i wanted the floor shifter, they found one up by medford or, and they had it shipped to dealer here.
i think if you wanted a floor shifter you could of just ask'd
when i was buying my truck, we test drove a black one and it had electronic shift 4x4, and i wanted the floor shifter, they found one up by medford or, and they had it shipped to dealer here.
i think if you wanted a floor shifter you could of just ask'd
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 393
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From: Camp Pendleton
RE: Push Button 4x4
ORIGINAL: 05Hemi_man
What is the deal with all wheel drive. The dealer told me that putting mine in 4hi locks all four wheels.(same with 4lo) All four wheels spin in the mud and given the right treads its a force to be reckoned with. The shift on the fly is great. If i see mud comin up all i do is turn the **** and as long as i'm goin below 55mph its all good. Anyone know if these 05's come with lockers?
What is the deal with all wheel drive. The dealer told me that putting mine in 4hi locks all four wheels.(same with 4lo) All four wheels spin in the mud and given the right treads its a force to be reckoned with. The shift on the fly is great. If i see mud comin up all i do is turn the **** and as long as i'm goin below 55mph its all good. Anyone know if these 05's come with lockers?
ORIGINAL: |3|ackAc|D
HRm...
when i was buying my truck, we test drove a black one and it had electronic shift 4x4, and i wanted the floor shifter, they found one up by medford or, and they had it shipped to dealer here.
i think if you wanted a floor shifter you could of just ask'd
HRm...
when i was buying my truck, we test drove a black one and it had electronic shift 4x4, and i wanted the floor shifter, they found one up by medford or, and they had it shipped to dealer here.
i think if you wanted a floor shifter you could of just ask'd
Champion
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 2
From: Skagit County, WA
RE: Push Button 4x4
ORIGINAL: |3|ackAc|D
Durangos and Dakotas switched over to Electronic shift 4wd in 2001, you couldn't get a manual shift in one of those after that year.
Durangos and Dakotas switched over to Electronic shift 4wd in 2001, you couldn't get a manual shift in one of those after that year.
Not sure about durangos but as far as I know the dakotas have standard manual shift on the lower models and electric on the laramies, it's just that so many came optioned with it that it's hard to find non-electric ones.