Need more power out of my 02 1500 5.9L for towing
#11
06-04-2012, 02:53 AM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
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First off, thanks for all the great advice guys. I honestly do appreciate it. I think I'm gonna like this forum.
1) I'll have to check the throttle body for any oil. But seeing as how the truck has 130k miles and more power is planned in the near future, I'll go ahead and order the Hughes Plenum kit as you suggested. Is this the kit? --> http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...=&partid=27091
2) It just had a tuneup 2 weeks ago.
3) A 3" lift with 33"-35" tires is planned pretty soon, so I'll go with the 4.56s as you suggested as well. I've never messed with gearing in any of my vehicles so a little more info is appreciated. Cost? Where to buy? Brands? As you can see I'm clueless when it comes to gearing. :/
A SuperChips was already planned for a little more grunt. I'm also going with a new exhaust setup because the stock exhaust is rusted to ****. Any advice there? Would an intake be worth the cost? She has a drop in K&N filter right now.
That's funny because my '98 RCSB 4x4 5.9 gasser would tow circles around my '02 Chevy Z71 QCSB 1500 5.3.
I would suspect a couple of things:
1) Is your plenum gasket 100% intact? A leaky plenum (VERY common) robs a lot of power and usually a good bit of fuel economy.
2) Is it properly tuned up?
3) And this is a biggie - GEARING. My '98 had 3.92 gears as opposed to the standard 3.55s that many 2nd & 3rd Gens shipped with. IMO the tow package should automatically come with the taller gearing, but it doesn't and if the dealer ordering the vehicle didn't spec 3.92s then you got 3.55s.
My Chevy had 3.73s which would make for better towing than 3.55s, but not as good as 3.92s.
Also, to be fair, you are comparing an engine that basically was designed in the late 1960s and only slightly upgraded through the years (fuel injection, aluminum heads, etc.) to an engine designed in the late 1990s.
Despite having less displacement, the 5.3 (which is nothing more than a 9mm stroked out 4.8 V8 BTW) puts out 290 HP and 315 TQ, or as much as 315 HP & 335 TQ if it's an '04.5 (mid model year upgrade) or newer. By comparison the much older technology LA360 (5.9L) puts out 230 HP although it's large displacement does make 330 TQ.
At very low RPM you would probably be right there with your brother as low end torque is pretty close, but once you get into the mid RPM powerband then his 300'ish HP is going to outpull your 230 HP. Not to mention you have a technologically ancient transmission (the 45 & 545rfe that replaced your 46re is light years more efficient and doesn't have near the parasitic loss from crank to rear wheels). Again, he has a transmission that was basically designed for the newer GM 4.8 & 5.3 engines at the same time period.
Simply from a technology standpoint - he's got it all over you!
Another thing I would bet is that his aluminum engine truck is WAY lighter than your cast blocked, long bed, QC truck weighs.
Check your plenum (many how to's on this forum - especially in the 2nd Gen section as you own a one year holdover 2nd Gen engine in a 3rd Gen body).
Two things I can suggest. Regear the truck to at least 4.10 gears, 4.56s if you are running larger than stock tires. Normally I suggest the jump right to 4.56s in 3rd Gens but the 545rfe basically has two overdrive gears and won't lose highway fuel economy but a four speed will. If power is more important to you than highway gas mileage then by all means go to 4.56 gearing.
Other thing I'd do is invest in an aftermarket tuner. The 5.9 mainly as a band aid for the plenum gasket issue was DE-TUNED dramatically at the factory. A Superchips tuner will add close to 50 HP and 50 TQ to your engine - but if your plenum gasket isn't blown now, the added HP will probably blow it - so do a Hughes Plenum kit as a permanent fix (retail $125 but I've seen it on ebay for under $70). I just installed one for a friend on his 5.2 V8 Dakota and it took me about 2 1/2 hours in his driveway. Immediate power gains and in the three weeks since I've done it he's reporting a 4 MPG fuel economy bump.
Hope this helps...
I would suspect a couple of things:
1) Is your plenum gasket 100% intact? A leaky plenum (VERY common) robs a lot of power and usually a good bit of fuel economy.
2) Is it properly tuned up?
3) And this is a biggie - GEARING. My '98 had 3.92 gears as opposed to the standard 3.55s that many 2nd & 3rd Gens shipped with. IMO the tow package should automatically come with the taller gearing, but it doesn't and if the dealer ordering the vehicle didn't spec 3.92s then you got 3.55s.
My Chevy had 3.73s which would make for better towing than 3.55s, but not as good as 3.92s.
Also, to be fair, you are comparing an engine that basically was designed in the late 1960s and only slightly upgraded through the years (fuel injection, aluminum heads, etc.) to an engine designed in the late 1990s.
Despite having less displacement, the 5.3 (which is nothing more than a 9mm stroked out 4.8 V8 BTW) puts out 290 HP and 315 TQ, or as much as 315 HP & 335 TQ if it's an '04.5 (mid model year upgrade) or newer. By comparison the much older technology LA360 (5.9L) puts out 230 HP although it's large displacement does make 330 TQ.
At very low RPM you would probably be right there with your brother as low end torque is pretty close, but once you get into the mid RPM powerband then his 300'ish HP is going to outpull your 230 HP. Not to mention you have a technologically ancient transmission (the 45 & 545rfe that replaced your 46re is light years more efficient and doesn't have near the parasitic loss from crank to rear wheels). Again, he has a transmission that was basically designed for the newer GM 4.8 & 5.3 engines at the same time period.
Simply from a technology standpoint - he's got it all over you!
Another thing I would bet is that his aluminum engine truck is WAY lighter than your cast blocked, long bed, QC truck weighs.
Check your plenum (many how to's on this forum - especially in the 2nd Gen section as you own a one year holdover 2nd Gen engine in a 3rd Gen body).
Two things I can suggest. Regear the truck to at least 4.10 gears, 4.56s if you are running larger than stock tires. Normally I suggest the jump right to 4.56s in 3rd Gens but the 545rfe basically has two overdrive gears and won't lose highway fuel economy but a four speed will. If power is more important to you than highway gas mileage then by all means go to 4.56 gearing.
Other thing I'd do is invest in an aftermarket tuner. The 5.9 mainly as a band aid for the plenum gasket issue was DE-TUNED dramatically at the factory. A Superchips tuner will add close to 50 HP and 50 TQ to your engine - but if your plenum gasket isn't blown now, the added HP will probably blow it - so do a Hughes Plenum kit as a permanent fix (retail $125 but I've seen it on ebay for under $70). I just installed one for a friend on his 5.2 V8 Dakota and it took me about 2 1/2 hours in his driveway. Immediate power gains and in the three weeks since I've done it he's reporting a 4 MPG fuel economy bump.
Hope this helps...
1) I'll have to check the throttle body for any oil. But seeing as how the truck has 130k miles and more power is planned in the near future, I'll go ahead and order the Hughes Plenum kit as you suggested. Is this the kit? --> http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...=&partid=27091
2) It just had a tuneup 2 weeks ago.
3) A 3" lift with 33"-35" tires is planned pretty soon, so I'll go with the 4.56s as you suggested as well. I've never messed with gearing in any of my vehicles so a little more info is appreciated. Cost? Where to buy? Brands? As you can see I'm clueless when it comes to gearing. :/
A SuperChips was already planned for a little more grunt. I'm also going with a new exhaust setup because the stock exhaust is rusted to ****. Any advice there? Would an intake be worth the cost? She has a drop in K&N filter right now.
#12
06-04-2012, 06:49 AM
1) Yep, that's the kit.
3) Do a search on here about gears - there are a lot of posts and I can't recall one guy re-gearing who has ever regretted it - the gears themselves - now we have had guys had there mechanics botch the install from time to time.
You'll need a ring & pinion set for both front and rear axles on a 4x4, brand is not as big a deal as who you choose to install it. I have Genuine Gears (G3), but Motives, Yukons, Mopar, Precisions, etc. are all fine. You'll also need a master install kit - get one with Timken bearings - best bearings made.
Gears should run you roughly $225 a set and the install kit another $100.
Now for the install - it's not easy to set gears if you don't do it routinely. Find you a shop with an experienced differential guy and you'll be fine.
As for price, my local 4x4 shop has an excellent installer and charges $600 per axle for the gears, install kit & labor.
4) Exhaust - depends on how loud you want it. But I'd stay away from Flowmaster - they are a chambered muffler (for sound) but as such are about as restrictive as the stock muffler. I have a list of popular mufflers and their CFM rate in the FAQ section.
Intakes are really only worth it if you combine 'em with other mods like a ported throttle body, heads, headers, etc. You're only going to flow air as fast as the weakest component in the system.
By themselves, CAIs don't do much - add about 5-7 RWHP and because of this, I tell guys to make their own for about $25 (plus filter cost) as opposed to dropping $300 on a store bought (K&N, AirRaid, etc.) or even on a $100 ebay one that usually breaks. Home made out of PVC is gonna flow just as much air as any other one you buy - except maybe the real high end ones like the Vararam that actually gets its air from outside the vehicle.
Again, use the search feature - hundreds of posts about making your own CAI plus I believe we have a DIY in the FAQ section as well...
3) Do a search on here about gears - there are a lot of posts and I can't recall one guy re-gearing who has ever regretted it - the gears themselves - now we have had guys had there mechanics botch the install from time to time.
You'll need a ring & pinion set for both front and rear axles on a 4x4, brand is not as big a deal as who you choose to install it. I have Genuine Gears (G3), but Motives, Yukons, Mopar, Precisions, etc. are all fine. You'll also need a master install kit - get one with Timken bearings - best bearings made.
Gears should run you roughly $225 a set and the install kit another $100.
Now for the install - it's not easy to set gears if you don't do it routinely. Find you a shop with an experienced differential guy and you'll be fine.
As for price, my local 4x4 shop has an excellent installer and charges $600 per axle for the gears, install kit & labor.
4) Exhaust - depends on how loud you want it. But I'd stay away from Flowmaster - they are a chambered muffler (for sound) but as such are about as restrictive as the stock muffler. I have a list of popular mufflers and their CFM rate in the FAQ section.
Intakes are really only worth it if you combine 'em with other mods like a ported throttle body, heads, headers, etc. You're only going to flow air as fast as the weakest component in the system.
By themselves, CAIs don't do much - add about 5-7 RWHP and because of this, I tell guys to make their own for about $25 (plus filter cost) as opposed to dropping $300 on a store bought (K&N, AirRaid, etc.) or even on a $100 ebay one that usually breaks. Home made out of PVC is gonna flow just as much air as any other one you buy - except maybe the real high end ones like the Vararam that actually gets its air from outside the vehicle.
Again, use the search feature - hundreds of posts about making your own CAI plus I believe we have a DIY in the FAQ section as well...
Last edited by HammerZ71; 06-04-2012 at 06:54 AM.
#13
06-06-2012, 02:11 PM
Captain
How about the 2003's hemi's? it worth buying a tuner to get better then 14.5 mpg? I've heard a few guys from here in Dallas Ft worth do a 1 time tune for like 100.00 bucks. But I've lost track of the contacts for this sorta thing.
I really hate to sell this truck just because of bad mpg. Any tuners recommended for mpg?
I really hate to sell this truck just because of bad mpg. Any tuners recommended for mpg?
#14
06-06-2012, 06:14 PM
IMO a tuner, any tuner, shouldn't be purchased for fuel economy. I've seen some of these "one time tunes" being written around here but not any more. People have gotten onto them in these here parts. You need to go back to stock for a dealer trip and they either soak you again or can't be found.
No thanks, I like to have my tune and my stock PCM tune in the palm of my hand, to be used whenever the hell I want to...
No thanks, I like to have my tune and my stock PCM tune in the palm of my hand, to be used whenever the hell I want to...