Different transmissions on 2004 Dodge Ram
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Different transmissions on 2004 Dodge Ram
I think someone is trying to take advantage of my ignorance of 4x4 trucks.
Long-time Mitsu and Audi wrencher/owner, lots of mechanical experience, but none on Dodge trucks. I bought a 2004 2500 5.7 4x4 at auction a couple months ago, it had been run off a road and hit a ditch with the tires head-on, shoved the front axle back hard, bent both upper control arms, some of the steering linkage and, of course, impacted the transfer case, cracking it.
The truck was still drivable once I got some used upper control arms on it and removed the front steering damper, even though the transfer case had all the fluid leaked out of it. We were only moving it around the yard on and off the rack as we got parts, but it moved fine in forward and reverse.
Got an "allegedly" rebuilt transfer case that had "allegedly" been run for 150 miles after it was rebuilt before his engine blew and he parted out the truck. I had the shop put it in today, and suddenly, the truck won't move in any direction.
When you shift the transfer case, it shows the light on the dash for the 4WD engaging, but the truck won't move, either in 4wd or 2wd. Had it hauled down the road to a transmission shop they recommended and he tried to tell me that there is more than one transmission for my year, make, and model truck, and that the input shafts on the transfer case were different. Told me that Mercedes made some of the transmission for this truck and made them with different input shafts.
Now I can't find a SHRED of evidence on the internet to support that there are two different transfer cases that fit two different kinds of transmissions on the 2004 5.7L Hemi equipped 2500 4x4's. He wants to rebuild the entire transfer case, when I suspect something much more straightforward is wrong with it, so I'm asking the experts on here:
1. Were there really two different transmissions that mated to two different transfer cases? Because the only one I can find for my truck is the 5-45RFE.
2. What would you suspect from an allegedly newly-rebuilt transfer case doing this upon installation? (Yes we checked the fluid).
Thanks in advance!
Long-time Mitsu and Audi wrencher/owner, lots of mechanical experience, but none on Dodge trucks. I bought a 2004 2500 5.7 4x4 at auction a couple months ago, it had been run off a road and hit a ditch with the tires head-on, shoved the front axle back hard, bent both upper control arms, some of the steering linkage and, of course, impacted the transfer case, cracking it.
The truck was still drivable once I got some used upper control arms on it and removed the front steering damper, even though the transfer case had all the fluid leaked out of it. We were only moving it around the yard on and off the rack as we got parts, but it moved fine in forward and reverse.
Got an "allegedly" rebuilt transfer case that had "allegedly" been run for 150 miles after it was rebuilt before his engine blew and he parted out the truck. I had the shop put it in today, and suddenly, the truck won't move in any direction.
When you shift the transfer case, it shows the light on the dash for the 4WD engaging, but the truck won't move, either in 4wd or 2wd. Had it hauled down the road to a transmission shop they recommended and he tried to tell me that there is more than one transmission for my year, make, and model truck, and that the input shafts on the transfer case were different. Told me that Mercedes made some of the transmission for this truck and made them with different input shafts.
Now I can't find a SHRED of evidence on the internet to support that there are two different transfer cases that fit two different kinds of transmissions on the 2004 5.7L Hemi equipped 2500 4x4's. He wants to rebuild the entire transfer case, when I suspect something much more straightforward is wrong with it, so I'm asking the experts on here:
1. Were there really two different transmissions that mated to two different transfer cases? Because the only one I can find for my truck is the 5-45RFE.
2. What would you suspect from an allegedly newly-rebuilt transfer case doing this upon installation? (Yes we checked the fluid).
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by Lear70; Dec 18, 2012 at 09:05 PM.
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If it's a 1500, either 6 speed with the 3.7 or 4.7 or the 545-RFE with 3.7, 4.7 or 5.7. Check your parts manual to be sure:
http://www.berrysprinter.com/e-Fiche...02-05/04dr.PDF
http://www.berrysprinter.com/e-Fiche...02-05/04dr.PDF
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Thanks, I didn't think so, since there's not ANY mention of it in the available order blocks for buying a replacement transfer case or transmission. I also found this from doing some searching on here:
Which basically means if the light is coming on with the shifter switched into 4wd mode, then the shift fork is engaging the plate to move it into position correctly so that the metal returns the resistance necessary to trip the light on the dash.
So if the internals are moving, wouldn't that narrow it down to a chain or shaft/spline alignment problem?
Again, I'm new to 4WD issues, but my Audi and Mitsus I've played with are AWD and the transfer case theory is similar enough. Difference is on those, the transmission drives the driveshafts directly for the front wheels, and there's a second output shaft to drive the transfer case to the rear wheels with a viscous coupler, not direct gears like these trucks.
Anyone with some experience rebuilding these or who has had a similar problem?
POSITION SENSOR
DESCRIPTION
The transfer case position sensor is an electronic
device whose output can be interpreted to indicate
the transfer case’s current operating mode. The sensor
consists of a five position, resistive multiplexed
circuit which returns a specific resistance value to
the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) for each transfer
case operating mode. The sensor is located on the
top of the transfer case, just left of the transfer case
centerline and rides against the sector plate roostercomb.
The PCM supplies 5VDC (+/- 0.5V) to the sensor
and monitors the return voltage to determine the
sector plate, and therefore the transfer case, position.
OPERATION
During normal vehicle operation, the Powertrain
Control Module (PCM) monitors the transfer case
position sensor return voltage to determine the operating
mode of the transfer case. Refer to the Operating
Mode Versus Resistance table for the correct
resistance for each position (Fig. 87).
DESCRIPTION
The transfer case position sensor is an electronic
device whose output can be interpreted to indicate
the transfer case’s current operating mode. The sensor
consists of a five position, resistive multiplexed
circuit which returns a specific resistance value to
the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) for each transfer
case operating mode. The sensor is located on the
top of the transfer case, just left of the transfer case
centerline and rides against the sector plate roostercomb.
The PCM supplies 5VDC (+/- 0.5V) to the sensor
and monitors the return voltage to determine the
sector plate, and therefore the transfer case, position.
OPERATION
During normal vehicle operation, the Powertrain
Control Module (PCM) monitors the transfer case
position sensor return voltage to determine the operating
mode of the transfer case. Refer to the Operating
Mode Versus Resistance table for the correct
resistance for each position (Fig. 87).
So if the internals are moving, wouldn't that narrow it down to a chain or shaft/spline alignment problem?
Again, I'm new to 4WD issues, but my Audi and Mitsus I've played with are AWD and the transfer case theory is similar enough. Difference is on those, the transmission drives the driveshafts directly for the front wheels, and there's a second output shaft to drive the transfer case to the rear wheels with a viscous coupler, not direct gears like these trucks.
Anyone with some experience rebuilding these or who has had a similar problem?
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Thanks, Lonestar, it's a 2500. The parts manual only lists the 5-45RFE for the automatic paired with a 5.7L Hemi in 4x4. Pretty sure the guy is trying to snow me into a complete rebuild when it's a likely a more simple problem, I just haven't had one apart to be able to intelligently discuss it, which usually leads to someone getting taken to the cleaners.
This is the reason I started working on my own cars a while back, just didn't have time with this one and thought it would be a simple R&R. :/
This is the reason I started working on my own cars a while back, just didn't have time with this one and thought it would be a simple R&R. :/
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By the way, thanks for the link to the parts manual! Will be great to print out the relevant pages, go by tomorrow and ask if there's a reason he's trying to screw me... 
May just pick it up and rebuild the damn thing myself. Doesn't look all that complicated, just time-consuming (which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place).
May just pick it up and rebuild the damn thing myself. Doesn't look all that complicated, just time-consuming (which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place).
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There is only one transmission, that guy is taking you for a ride... there is a 4 speed in older models but that won't work at all for you.
You should be fine with any automatic transmission that comes out of a 2004 Ram w/ the 5.7L Hemi, nothing should be different.
Kinda sounds like you need a more knowledgeable/trustworthy shop to do the work for you...
You should be fine with any automatic transmission that comes out of a 2004 Ram w/ the 5.7L Hemi, nothing should be different.
Kinda sounds like you need a more knowledgeable/trustworthy shop to do the work for you...
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Lonestar, it says "Sorry, unable to retrieve this document"...???
Yeah, my transmission is fine. There's something wrong with the transfer case. I took the parts numbers and such and stopped by, told him that I had a hard time with his "diagnosis" when he hadn't even opened the back cover and had a look inside.
I'm pretty sure I'm just going to go get the truck after the holidays, bring it home, and dive into the transfer case myself. Doesn't look all that complicated, not like setting the pre-load on the automatic transmission clutch bands (which is why I don't do transmission work).
Anyone have a video or pictorial walk-through on rebuilding one of these? Can't tell for sure what's wrong, but no one seems to be able to diagnose just by the symptoms... ?
Thanks!
Yeah, my transmission is fine. There's something wrong with the transfer case. I took the parts numbers and such and stopped by, told him that I had a hard time with his "diagnosis" when he hadn't even opened the back cover and had a look inside.
I'm pretty sure I'm just going to go get the truck after the holidays, bring it home, and dive into the transfer case myself. Doesn't look all that complicated, not like setting the pre-load on the automatic transmission clutch bands (which is why I don't do transmission work).
Anyone have a video or pictorial walk-through on rebuilding one of these? Can't tell for sure what's wrong, but no one seems to be able to diagnose just by the symptoms... ?
Thanks!
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This link may help with part numbers
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...rts/dodge.html
Also, here's some other info I found:
The NV231HD, used in the 1994+ Ram with V6 and V8 engines, features larger bearings and a wider chain than the NV231. All versions of the 231 cases use three gears in the planetary reduction set.
The NV241 is essentially a NV231HD with six gears in the planetary set.
The NV241D is a heavier duty Dodge version of the 241, with a larger input shaft and larger bearings to withstand the torque of the V10 and diesel engines.
The NV241HD, an option on Ram 2500's and standard on Ram 3500's built after 1998, has a stronger case and wider drive chain to better withstand the shock of snow plow service, a PTO cover and drive gear, and an extra bearing to support the thrust to the main shaft created by a PTO adapter.
Except for dimensional differences and the PTO port on the NV241HD, all of the cases are almost identical in appearance. An identification tag is attached to the rear case of every transfer case. The tag provides the transfer case model number, assembly number, serial number, and low range ratio. The transfer case serial number also provides the date of build.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...rts/dodge.html
Also, here's some other info I found:
The NV231HD, used in the 1994+ Ram with V6 and V8 engines, features larger bearings and a wider chain than the NV231. All versions of the 231 cases use three gears in the planetary reduction set.
The NV241 is essentially a NV231HD with six gears in the planetary set.
The NV241D is a heavier duty Dodge version of the 241, with a larger input shaft and larger bearings to withstand the torque of the V10 and diesel engines.
The NV241HD, an option on Ram 2500's and standard on Ram 3500's built after 1998, has a stronger case and wider drive chain to better withstand the shock of snow plow service, a PTO cover and drive gear, and an extra bearing to support the thrust to the main shaft created by a PTO adapter.
Except for dimensional differences and the PTO port on the NV241HD, all of the cases are almost identical in appearance. An identification tag is attached to the rear case of every transfer case. The tag provides the transfer case model number, assembly number, serial number, and low range ratio. The transfer case serial number also provides the date of build.