Can anybody provide the TID (Test ID) & CID (Component ID) definitions for MODE 6 data?

I have a 2005 ram 1500 4x4, 5.7L hemi

the particular test ID that are failing are:
TID:57 CID:00 fuel system bank 1 delta high threshold
TID:58 fuel system bank 1 delta low threshold
TID:59 fuel system bank 2 delta high threshold
TID:5A fuel system bank 2 delta low threshold

wierd thing is, all the i/m monitors have run and passed. I'm trying to diag a intermitant missfire under light load conditions. No dtc are setting. I believe it to be ignition related but figure I shouldn't ignore this.

Thanks for any help.

 

Moving this to the 3rd gen ram section where it belongs.

 

All of those test indicators are related to the O2 Sensors and the Catalytic Converter.

If you are seeing those indicators with a reader or other tool you should see a temporary DTC appear.

Most likely one of the following:

P0420
P0171 (or P0172)
P0031
P0148
P0174 (or P0175)

You may have some clogged Cats and/or bad O2 sensors (my guess it upstream aka Pre-Cat)

If no temporary codes are setting you will have to log a few things:

RPM
Injector Duty Cycle
Timing (Base)
Timing (Adjusted/Added)
Feedback Knock Correction
Open Loop/Closed Loop
A/F Sensor Voltage (aka upstream Oxygen Sensor)
Manifold Absolute Pressure
Intake Air Temp
Throttle Position

If we have all of that logged and you can recreate the condition then we can start to narrow it down.

Just so we know:

Do you have any modifications done?

Any recent maintenance performed? (if so what was done?)

What kind of spark plugs do you have in there now? (i.e. Platinum, Iridium, Copper, etc.)

How many miles on the truck?

What have you done to try and fix the problem already? (parts, service, etc.)

And lastly Welcome to Dodge Forum!

 

Thanks for moving this... thought i was in 3rd gen.


I missed one important piece of information on the mode 6 data that doesn't make sense to me. They tests all were for the EGR system. all of the data was prefixed with EGR

TID:57 CID:00 EGR fuel system bank 1 delta high threshold

Which is wierd because I've never seen fuel trim related to the EGR system.

Sorry for the mis-information. To anwswer some of your questions:

No codes or pending codes are set.
-The fuel trim is within +/- 10% on both banks long term and short term.
-The cats aren't clogged as there is tons of power.
-The front 02 are switching quickly and over 0.800v and under 0.2 v.
-The front 02 to rear 02 cross counts are fine.
-100 000 miles
-everything is stock

Just bought the truck so don't have the service history other than the sparks plugs were supposed to have been replaced...maybe in an attempt to fix the problem? I will check the plugs and wires this weekend to verify the conditon and type of plug.

I will have to see if the genysis scan tool can be triggered to record data when the fault is occuring as I don't have a data logger.

Thanks for the reply.

 

Okay well the front O2 sensors should be reading between 0.2V - 1.0V so as long as they are not dipping below .2 and above 1.0V you should be okay.

Since you do not know what spark plugs were put in, I would change them to eliminate them as a possible cause.

Your last post regarding:

TID:57 CID:00 EGR fuel system bank 1 delta high threshold

From the sounds of this your EGR needs to be replaced.

The EGR does exactly what it stands for (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), which basically uses inert exhaust gas to displace the fuel and air mixture inside the cylinder in order to gain a more efficient and controlled "combustion" cycle. So if it is not working correctly you may see varying lean and rich conditions during each combustion cycle.

You are likely not seeing as much of the problem under heavy load conditions because the EGR "shuts off" during higher loads so that it does not reduce power output.

So in short here is what I would do:

1) Replace EGR
2) Replace all 16 spark plugs with Copper Core Plugs
3) Clean Throttle Body w/ Throttle Body Cleaner and a lint free rag/cloth.

I am inclined to think that the misfire at light load may be due to the fact that the EGR is allowing "too much" exhaust gas to enter the cylinder which is displacing too much fuel, the same can be said if it is not allowing "enough" exhaust gas in, but it would be much less serious/apparent if that was the case.

Not many people have a genysis scan tool ($1,800-$3,600 tool) so consider yourself lucky!

 

I will do that this weekend and report back.

wonder if the light load condition along with an the possible egr leak is causing a lean misfire. I will block it of temporarily and do a short test drive.

I was looking at the 2 champion copper core plugs optioned for this model
from napa. Which is better?
cha570c2 or cha570.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

cha570 is fine for our trucks, I'm not sure what the cha570c2 is... but if it is "one step colder" or something don't even bother with it unless you have some motor work done and a custom tune.

I just said that the EGR is likely the cause of your misfire problem. replace it and see what happens.

 

I heard what you suggested and will start with the egr. I'll post the result.



I had always thought an egr leak would enrichen the fuel mixture by displacing air and lowering the MAP reading. I never considered that it would displace fuel.

 

The EGR's purpose is to inject small amounts of exhaust gas (already burnt up fuel and air mixture) back into the cylinders.

It is that exhaust gas that "displaces" the fuel, which means it spreads out the molecules of the atomized fuel so that you get a more even and controlled burn.

So if the EGR is not working properly you will get a burn (aka combustion) that is not controlled as intended, so the result is what the PCM perceives as a "misfire" or "knock"... basically if there is "too much" exhaust gas injected then you end up with fuel that is spaced out too much and not enough air inside the cylinder. That situation causes a "rich" A/F ratio after the combustion cycle. And if "too little" exhaust case is injected then you end up with fuel that wants to "re-attach" to other fuel molecules, as well as more air inside the cylinder, which has the potential to give you pre-detonation (during the compression cycle), or you may get an uncontrolled combustion (burn) during the combustion cycle because there is more air than expected and the atomized fuel (from the injectors) is packed closer together; either way when this happens your result is a "lean" A/F Ratio after the combustion cycle.

Now I've seen it happen with high performance cars and trucks where it will alternate between a lean and rich a/f ratio rapidly, which opens the possibility for other things to be wrong, and the check-list usually goes like this:

1) EGR
2) Plugs
3) Throttle Body
4) Oxygen Sensors (Upstream's only, as they detect the A/F mixture)
5) Cylinder Compression (via Compression test)
6) Camshaft Timing/Positions (Especially the duration where both exhaust and intake are open in some simpler EGR systems)
7) Leak Down Test (to check valve seals) - Note: I usually skip to this test if the compression test comes back bad.

If all of those come back okay, then it's time to dig into sensors and PCM/ECU readings, as well as the actual tune/programming.

 

to update: did not have time to get fully into the problem this weekend.

I did test that the egr valve and position sensor. It can be moved with the scan tool and the position signal voltage seems correct 4.1volts fully closed (I forget the reading when open 2.2v?). I disconnected the electrical connector to the sensor and went for a test drive. The misfire conditon was unchanged.

I pulled 2 plugs. They were brand new and the proper champion copper core plugs. The plug wires appear to be as old as the truck. I will spray them will water and load the engine to test further.

The tach is jiggling when the misfire is occuring so i will look into the ignition system further. I have a labscope module so maybe I can isolate the misfire to a cylinder or coil pack with that.

I will have closer look at the 02's later this week. If i can get the tool to check injector balance i will run that check to rule out the injectors.