Hi all,

First, YES, I know this has been talked about untold times on the forum. So I'm framing the request a little different here. If you have an MDS Hemi (2006 or 2007), along with
EITHER
a cold-air-intake,
OR
a Superchips programmer,
OR
BOTH,

I'm requesting you please describe the noises and/or vibrations your experience as follows:

1. The MDS cylinder deactivation
2. Shifting into 4th (first overdrive) gear
3. Either of the above two if you can't tell whether it's MDS activation or OD shift

Here is my description:

1. 2006 Ram 5.7 with MDS
2. K&N CAI
3. Superchips set on Performance 91 mode
4. Description of sounds/vibrations: When MDS kicks in, it is extremely noticeable, with a very short (fraction of a second) "thunk" sound, along with an actual "feelable" jerk vibration, again fraction of second, but noticeable. It sounds like a very hollow sound, almost like dropping a penny into an empty tin can. Important: for the first few hundred miles I experienced this, it was just the "hollow" sound, with no "feeling" involved, but more recently I can actually "feel" the truck at this moment do something, almost like an engine misfire. When I use either regular method to disable MDS (disable OD or Tow/Haul mode) NEITHER the sound nor the vibration occurs. The reason I think I have it nailed to MDS kicking in versus OD kicking in is that every time this happens, the RPMs shoot up by a few hundred, and this is indicative of MDS kicking in.

Again, i apologize up front for yet another conversation about MDS/sounds/CAI/Superchips, but I really would like to know if I'm crazy or not, because every week that goes by when I hear/feel this situation, I get that much more bothered by it.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

I went round and round with Superchips about that problem. Good luck. I am going to give you the link to where many of us talked about it on their forums.

They claim it is an issue that is only amplified by installing the tuned program which I found to be untrue. I did hundreds and hundreds of miles of tests for them and I got very little response and the only response I really got on the phone was "send it back for a refund".

My truck was built in 06/06. So I can only figure that most of my truck was built with the same stuff that is in the 07's and they are having major problems with the 07's but will not address the same problems on the 06's. From what I understand the very early 07's can use the 06 program but they have similar problems as I do and the later 07's will not work at all.

Read what has been posted and I would send in a ticket to SC to let them know there are more then "just a few" complaints as Ron says.

Here is the post on this Board. Read all of them and if you remember Motorider228 lost a transmission but he never had any shift problems with his SC yet he blamed his SC for the transmission failure.
https://dodgeforum.com/m_675460/tm.htm

Here are the posts on SC's board, I would read it all and you will see the responses and the request for responses that go unanswered. They never put the refund offer in writing and would never say why they were offering a refund. I guess this is to keep them safe if there was a problem with your truck later.
http://www.flashpaq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246


I keep my truck in stock 90% of the time now and because I am a fisherman and changing the program every time I hook up the boat sucks.

Make sure that you tell them so they will start seeing it is not only a few people as they think.

 

Why put up with this sound
for what may only be a 1 hp gain?

The KN does not improve MPG.

Do you think Chrysler would put on that complicated MDS system
at an added expensive of about $75 per engine (their numbers)
for an approximate 10% gain in MPG in daily driving,
and Chrysler would not spend maybe $5-10 per engine
copying exactly the KN CAI design
if it would give a 'true' MPG gain ?

Get rid of the sound by putting the stock airbox back on
and sell the KN on eBay.

-----
Before spending considerable money on a cold air intake,
read what the volunteers found independently testing
KN Air Charger, KN drop in, Volant, Mopar and Airaid 360
aftermarket air intakes against the stock factory airbox
on 5.7 V8 Hemi's in Chrysler LX's

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=14140

Keep in mind that the factory airbox
on a Ram pickup 5.7 Hemi engine is even
bigger and less restrictive than the factory box on a LX.

To save everyone some math
the average of three runs
of the stock factory airbox and paper filter dyno'ed:

280 HP with a standard deviation of 3.75
(corrected to standard pressure and temperature)

The only cold air intake testing better
was the KN Air Charger at
281 HP with a standard deviation of 4.15

Since the average of all 18 dyno runs
where an air intake design
was tested after a standard PCM reset was:

279 with a standard deviation of 3.24
(runs number 4 to 6 plus runs 10 to 24)

you really can't say with certainty that the
extra 1 HP for the KN Air Charger was 'real'
because even a well designed wheel dyno
that is well maintained
and has a great operator
can't be depended upon to repeat that close.

279 HP with a standard deviation of 3.24
means in simple terms
that if you ran exactly the same engine exactly the same way
100 times, then
98 of the runs would 'scatter' between
a high of 285.5 and
a low of 272.5
(which is 279 plus and minus two times 3.24)

1 HP gain for the KN Air Charger versus
280 for the factory air box
is below 1% difference
and this rear wheel dyno
seems to be varying over a range of 12.96 hp
which at a bit less than 5%
is actually admirable for repeats on a wheel dyno.

What can you say with certainty?

You can say:
1) they have fancy colorful paint jobs

2) they make more noise than the factory intake

3) 50% of the buyers who check their next tank of gasoline
will 'by chance' find a higher MPG than the last MPG they remember.
Of the other 50% who 'by chance'
find their next tank of gasoline's MPG is lower,
a considerable number will think something like
"the computer is still learning" or
"I must have been driving with a heavy foot"
and will go on to give the CAI another chance
and watch future tanks of gasoline
for their wishes to come true to justify their purchase.
Since MPG improves on vehicles as they age,
(because their pistons' ring tension wears looser
and their tire tread depth wears down and gives lower rolling resistance
.....the well known 'break in' effect)
these buyers will eventually find their MPG has gone up,
and they give the credit to the intake for the increase.
Very few will ever take the CAI off for awhile to check to
see if the MPG stays the same, or goes down.


----

 

i added a little commment there for them to see

 

Wow, is all I can say. That flashpaq forum post EXACTLY describes what I am experiencing.

I joined the club there and opened a trouble ticket as they ask. Given the history laid out there, I'm sure it will just boil down to live with it (which I won't) or push for a refund. Sad...because regardless of what the "1 hp" numbers show, I really do FEEL a difference on a tune, and I like it. But I can't live with the side effects.

 

I really think the reason more people do not notice this shifting problem is because they are not in the 35-55mph range much, or they are on the throttle hard all the time. If I drive like a teenager I do not notice it. It is only when I drive normal and accelerate slowly that I really notice the shifting. I will always feel it if I hold the truck at 40-45mph.

Let me know what they tell you. I would love to hear about it.

 

My superchips on my 06 never did that weird shifting thing. I loved the power it added and was a firm believer in them until I got my truck back from the dodge dealer and I got the news that my tranny was toast. The day i installed it I started hearing a loud clank every time it shifted under wot and I asked around and everyone always said "oh don't worry that's just the shifts being firmed up" well they were wrong,second gear andover drive clutches were toast along with the valve body needing to be replaced.

 

below is a long post from a guy who claims to work as a dyno operator at Chrysler Engine test center on 4.7 and 5.7 engines. Previously he says he worked at GM in a similar job. While I can't confirm this (this is the internet after all) I can say his other posts seem to show a lot of dyno experience.
Note what he says about the 'tune' that SuperChips puts in for the 5.7 Hemi
and what it does to wipe out detonation protection:
======

At some point I must have been unclear as to what SC's did to render the PW useless,
when using a 2004-2006 Hemi SC's tune and a PW together, so I will attempt to clear up any confusion.
SC's did not disable the inlet air temperature (IAT) sensor reading in the PCM.
The IAT sensor reading is needed to set up base fueling and delivered spark advance.
The IAT reading with a SC's tune installed will function and look perfectly normal when viewed with a scan tool.
There are two spark advance offset tables that SC's disabled within their calibrations,
one being hot coolant spark retard and the other being hot IAT spark retard.

Most base EFI calibration work is done with an IAT reading between 77°-90°F
and offset tables are used to modify the base settings according to the actual IAT.
The normal function of a EFI control system with IAT sensor feedback is to retard the spark advance
as inlet air temperatures increase.
The normal function of the PW is to delay this spark retard until the IAT gets a little hotter
than the stock calibration by lowering the IAT reading set to the PCM by the IAT sensor.
If the actual IAT reading is 88°F when the PW is installed the reading sent to the PCM with the same 88°F IAT temp
will be roughly 70°F. Tricking the PCM by giving it a false IAT reading that is 18°F cooler than actual
will prevent the hot IAT spark advance table from removing as much spark advance as it normally would
for the 88°F IAT, which will result in a slight performance improvement.
The PW does not increase the spark advance over and above the base spark advance values,
it only delays the spark advance offset table from retarding the spark advance until the IAT gets a little hotter.
SuperChips's zeroed out the hot coolant and hot IAT offset tables in their 2004-2006 Hemi calibrations,
which means that as your coolant temperature climes to 240°F or hotter
(towing max capacity in Arizona)
and as your IAT climbs to 150°F or hotter,
you will get absolutely no spark advance retard to prevent harmful spark knock or detonation.
The knock sensors will retard the spark advance up to there maximum authority but,
it will not be enough to stop the harmful detonation in the above mentioned scenario.
The PW delays spark advance retard until the IAT gets a little hotter than the stock calibration
and the SC's 2004-2006 Hemi tunes completely eliminate spark advance retard, no matter how hot the IAT gets.
My advice to anyone using a SC's 2004-2006 Hemi tune is to install a 180°F t-stat
and burn the highest octane pump fuel you can get (91-94,)
especially during the hotter months in very dry climates and whenever towing. FWIW.

There is a Hemi truck, that was running a SC's tune,
sitting in a dealer in Las Vegas right now with a failed piston.
Is it hot and dry in Las Vegas?
I wonder which tune and what octane fuel he was using?
Who should pay for the new engine DCX, Superchips or the truck owner???
-------
Matt, It seems like you may be taking some of my posts very personally.
I am not here to bash or to make claims that my 12 years of engine dyno experience do not back up.
You can take what I post with a grain of salt, which you should.
Some people feel that the DCX engineers and technicians,
such as myself, do not know what they are doing,
otherwise the 5.7L Hemi would be over 500 HP right off the showroom floor.
The fact is that most of the engineers and technicians that I work with
are very knowledable with a great deal of experience and are personally involved,
either previously or presently, in some type of motorsports racing.
It is very clear that the performance of the Hemi can be improved upon
immensely when cost, fuel economy, emissions, noise, and driveability
in a wide range of conditions are of no concern.
You may also feel that I have no place in offering advice here
because my truck is not as heavily modded as some of the other members here.
I usually do not to post on things that I know nothing about.
I have been reading the great info here on DT for almost two years now,
and I have learned a lot. I have also followed along as most of you
have improved the performance of your trucks considerably,
picking up some great ideas from other members along the way.

Knowing a little bit about you,
from what I have read here, my only interest is in helping you
and anyone else here avoid an engine melt down,
which would be very costly and a huge inconvenience
to not have your daily driver for a few weeks.
I have been there! When I was about your age I had a hot rodded car
that I blew a head gasket on due to detonation and later spun the harmonic balancer
on the crankshaft taking out keyway. I was only down a day or two with the head gasket
issue but I was driving mom's car and my motorcycle (in cold MI weather) to and from work,
for quite a while when I was completely rebuilding the engine.

In my opinion, which you didn't ask for,
but are going to get anyway in hopes that in may help you,
you should save any money that you are going to spend on dyno testing
and invest in a wideband O2 sensor air-fuel-ratio meter of you own
to permanently install in your truck.
An engineer that I work with did side by side, steady state,
fixed fuel and spark values, engine dyno comparasons with the Innovate LM-1 sensor
and compared it to a emission AFR analyzer and a FA1000 wideband O2 AFR sensor.
The LM-1 gave very close to the same AFR's as the much more expensive equipment.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/xd16.php

 

Well, three sets of dialogue back and forth with Superchips support now, mainly asking me lots of questions, which is fine, and making sure my flashpaq has the latest updates (it does). We verified all of that, and since I have heard nothing.

My truck is currently set back to stock mode with no tune. It looks so far like this is going to turn into a battle...

 

I've never had any problems, but I usually run the 91 tune with 93+ octane. I also tend to drive it like I stole it when it is warmed up. I have noticed though that the truck seems doggish on the 87 tune compared to the 91 tune, but that could be because of less spark advance. Hope everything works out well for you guys.