2011 Dodge Ram Programmers
#32
01-08-2013, 09:37 PM
Hey Nate, I updated my Bully using the provided update agent and tried installing it on my 4.7L v8 NON-Hemi engine and was asked fer an unlock code. When I called Bully, they told me I had to buy a separate code, even though I didn't have a Hemi, because it was for all 2011-2013 Chrysler ECU's with 4.7L and 5.7L engines. Granted, it is a new generation model, but the Ram trucks have been supported on the Bully since 1988 (diesel) and 2003 (gas) and the engines affected aren't new either. This isn't some new truck that nobody's ever heard of before. The good news is, it doesn't APPEAR to have affected the 6.7L diesels, so those with the 40420 GT Diesel are in the clear, I hope.
And similar to what Josh said, if it was a $50 device and you just paid for your specific vehicle tune, I don't think I'd have been this upset about these recent occurances, but it wasn't, it was $500 for me and now I'm still having to pay for a specific vehicle, just because I chose Dodge over a Ford or Bow-tie. And if I'd bought the pyrometer kit with my Bully, it would have been very close to your H&S kit. I also don't know why you'd need to unlock navigation IN MOTION since isn't that what Nav is for? DVD I get.... if I wanted to be pulled over and fined $2,000 (state law).
Also, how exactly would you know it was a 128-bit 'military grade' encryption???
And just so everyone is aware, the Hemi Plus tuner device (model 40430) is ONLY for the Ram truck or Hemi engine line up. So if you have a 2011+ Chrysler 300c or Dodge Charger or Challenger or Durango, or even a Ram 1500 with the 4.7L v6 or 5.7L v8, you need the "Hemi Plus" device ($587.99 btw) or the "Hemi" unlock code (40410D) for $118 for the standard GT tuner (model 40410). Which the standard GT tuner will work with ANY of the new or previous generations of Ford F series or Chevy Silverado's, and previous generation Rams (gen 4 2010 and gen 3) with OBDII ports without having to pay for an unlock code or in the instance with the "Hemi Plus" device: being limited to just one set of trucks, and it's more than my Bully multi-manufacturer tuner.
I also want to throw this out there: BullyDog is keeping this "Upgrade" for the standard 40410 gas tuner very hush-hush. I had to be told about it by the Bully customer service rep after I couldn't get the device to take on my truck. The "upgrade" for the standard GT tuner is model number 40410D, D as in Delta, and is only accessible through this hyperlink they provided me: http://www.bullydog.com/hemi_tuning.php . I tried searching for it ON THEIR SITE using THEIR search bar. Nothing! Tried Google, only found links to the standard tuner! I'm guessing, for whatever reason, they seriously do not want existing 40410 owners or potential new customers to know the GT Gas can be 'unlocked' for the new 2011+ Rams for a "small fee", of course. Sounds awfully shady what BullyDog seems to be doing. Next we'll be hearing how the next generation 2013 Chevrolet 1500's require the purchase of an 'unlock' code or the next Ford Eco-boost only works with an 'unlock' code. Bad ju-ju Bully.
And just on a separate note, Nate769, you say you don't work at all, of course. And yet you seem to have plenty of money to throw at things like a new 2007 Ram 1500 Laramie (gas), new 2011 Ram 1500 Sport, and a new 2012 Ram 3500 Laramie Loaded (diesel), and then begin to list over $2,000 worth of upgrades to throw at the diesel. And yes, my coworker has a 2008 Ram 3500 and with his Diablo can punch in however much HP he wants and he's got it. We all know for raw power, diesel is always better than gas. I applaud you in whatever you did to get to the point where you can throw $150,000 around and not even bat an eye at it; but I know I'm lucky just to be making less than 1/3 of that number in a year and barely be able to afford my new Ram. If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't even have known this site existed. I'd have traded my Ram right back in after finding out about this crap with Dodge and gone and bought a decked out Ford Raptor if I had your kind of money, and be enjoying the mud bogs right now. But the fact is I am one of the lower working class trying to make it by working an honest days job, busting my *** and likely won't have Social Security around by the time I retire, which at the rate the latest retirement ages have been climbing, won't be until I'm 85 still turning a wrench. So again, I applaud you and wish I could have your kind of money, but for me, $118 in addition to what I'd already spent on their 'promises' is a very large insult; and unless BullyDog decides to rectify this situation, they're gonna be one less customer loyal in addition to anybody who asks me for my recommendations on a tuner/programmer, because right now, it's just a fancy, uselss gauge cluster.
And similar to what Josh said, if it was a $50 device and you just paid for your specific vehicle tune, I don't think I'd have been this upset about these recent occurances, but it wasn't, it was $500 for me and now I'm still having to pay for a specific vehicle, just because I chose Dodge over a Ford or Bow-tie. And if I'd bought the pyrometer kit with my Bully, it would have been very close to your H&S kit. I also don't know why you'd need to unlock navigation IN MOTION since isn't that what Nav is for? DVD I get.... if I wanted to be pulled over and fined $2,000 (state law).
Also, how exactly would you know it was a 128-bit 'military grade' encryption???
And just so everyone is aware, the Hemi Plus tuner device (model 40430) is ONLY for the Ram truck or Hemi engine line up. So if you have a 2011+ Chrysler 300c or Dodge Charger or Challenger or Durango, or even a Ram 1500 with the 4.7L v6 or 5.7L v8, you need the "Hemi Plus" device ($587.99 btw) or the "Hemi" unlock code (40410D) for $118 for the standard GT tuner (model 40410). Which the standard GT tuner will work with ANY of the new or previous generations of Ford F series or Chevy Silverado's, and previous generation Rams (gen 4 2010 and gen 3) with OBDII ports without having to pay for an unlock code or in the instance with the "Hemi Plus" device: being limited to just one set of trucks, and it's more than my Bully multi-manufacturer tuner.
I also want to throw this out there: BullyDog is keeping this "Upgrade" for the standard 40410 gas tuner very hush-hush. I had to be told about it by the Bully customer service rep after I couldn't get the device to take on my truck. The "upgrade" for the standard GT tuner is model number 40410D, D as in Delta, and is only accessible through this hyperlink they provided me: http://www.bullydog.com/hemi_tuning.php . I tried searching for it ON THEIR SITE using THEIR search bar. Nothing! Tried Google, only found links to the standard tuner! I'm guessing, for whatever reason, they seriously do not want existing 40410 owners or potential new customers to know the GT Gas can be 'unlocked' for the new 2011+ Rams for a "small fee", of course. Sounds awfully shady what BullyDog seems to be doing. Next we'll be hearing how the next generation 2013 Chevrolet 1500's require the purchase of an 'unlock' code or the next Ford Eco-boost only works with an 'unlock' code. Bad ju-ju Bully.
And just on a separate note, Nate769, you say you don't work at all, of course. And yet you seem to have plenty of money to throw at things like a new 2007 Ram 1500 Laramie (gas), new 2011 Ram 1500 Sport, and a new 2012 Ram 3500 Laramie Loaded (diesel), and then begin to list over $2,000 worth of upgrades to throw at the diesel. And yes, my coworker has a 2008 Ram 3500 and with his Diablo can punch in however much HP he wants and he's got it. We all know for raw power, diesel is always better than gas. I applaud you in whatever you did to get to the point where you can throw $150,000 around and not even bat an eye at it; but I know I'm lucky just to be making less than 1/3 of that number in a year and barely be able to afford my new Ram. If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't even have known this site existed. I'd have traded my Ram right back in after finding out about this crap with Dodge and gone and bought a decked out Ford Raptor if I had your kind of money, and be enjoying the mud bogs right now. But the fact is I am one of the lower working class trying to make it by working an honest days job, busting my *** and likely won't have Social Security around by the time I retire, which at the rate the latest retirement ages have been climbing, won't be until I'm 85 still turning a wrench. So again, I applaud you and wish I could have your kind of money, but for me, $118 in addition to what I'd already spent on their 'promises' is a very large insult; and unless BullyDog decides to rectify this situation, they're gonna be one less customer loyal in addition to anybody who asks me for my recommendations on a tuner/programmer, because right now, it's just a fancy, uselss gauge cluster.
#33
01-09-2013, 01:30 AM
I was not aware of the 4.7, to my understanding it was just the HEMI that was causing the issues. I guess they must have used the same encryption on both...But either way its the encryption that's halted everything. Which I learned directly from Bully/Superchips/Diablo. It is something that has NEVER been done in a vehicle before. So just for the simple fact that its military grade encryption means its gonna be hard. I would be willing to put money down that bully/diablo had to beg on their knees for Chrysler to let them tune their vehicles, and suddenly Chrysler gave in.
I don't think its a matter of the problem with the engine, or even the truck being different. Its the simple fact that the tuner has to work differently to access the computer to upload the tune. It has to CHANGE all the coding inside the computer, in order to do that you need to access it first. Which in the case of a new computer=different access. Its not using the same firmware or the same numbers to do that. Therefore your gonna need new ones...
This whole microsoft thing, its still windows 8 or 7, its still their own system, their own security. They own all rights to whatever they update or work on. Its totally different here. Chrysler did NOT want any access to these computers for their own reasoning. Bully can't just go into their system and run some beta tests and then put out an update. Also Just because diablo did not charge you doesn't mean they are going to be better. Have you compared each tuner to see exactly what each one does? Rumor has it to me that diablo does not support transmission shift points yet...again just rumors, but maybe by paying a little more, you are receiving more.
It could also be that we are just seeing the start of per vehicle tuning or per year tuning. I know it has not been like that EVER, but MAYBE its a start. I said it in a previous post that its getting harder and harder to make a tune. If you don't know this already but H&S has STOPPED production of ALL diesel products. I also believe that Bully had to shut down their diesel line as well. The governments/environmentalists have shut them down, and its not gonna get better anytime soon. It is not soo bad yet here in Alberta because we have no provincial regulations (Yet) but I know in BC it is fineable whenever you have black smoke coming out the pipe. Its getting tougher, and has been for a few years. Maybe we are starting to see it with gassers now too...If I remember right, in California all tuners are illegal. (But maybe someone could chime in on that, I think I read it on both bullies and diablos site)
I am not trying to side with bully, nor am I trying to side with you. I just look at it this way, (I have said it before) at least bullydog gave you the option of an unlock code. They could have said heck with them guys they could buy a whole new tuner. I don't have much experience with diablo, other then the crappy tech support and email response times. Nor do I really know their line of products and what kind of tuning and special features they do...You also brought up somewhere here that bullydog has been supported for many years. How long do you think bullydog can go by just releasing "free" updates before they go broke? If I remember right the GT has been out for quite a long time...If they can't release a new product without guys yipping at them because they advertise "free updates" they are gonna go out of business. It will get to the point where they are not selling anymore tuners because everyone already has them. All they do now is move it from vehicle to vehicle and expect updates. At least the trinity is still a fairly new unit (to my knowledge) With the diesel line shut down, they lost half their profit...
I am just looking at it from both ways I guess, thats why companies have such a thing as product mark-up. They need to make up their overhead somehow or they go under. Ya sure they gotta keep customers happy, but they will be less happy if you go under because your overhead is too high...
Don't be too quick to judge me personally either, Yes I work, and I work hard. I work in the trade workers capital of Canada. There is always a job here in Alberta, what I meant was I don't work for bully. The only reason I upgrade every 2 years or so is because the deal that I receive on all Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles. Take that 150 grand you quoted, and change it to the price of Canadian vehicles new. (To around 220 grand) and cut that in half, and you get close to what I have paid for all three vehicles together. I can walk into any dealership and get a better deal then the owner of the dealer can. I'm not trying to rub that in, just trying to say I definitely don't make as much money as you think I do...Just because I drive new trucks doesn't mean I have money, frankly I have never even owned any of these trucks the banks do. I don't mean to sound mad, because I am not. But it does disgust me when people look at my truck and think I have all the money in the world to spend. The only reason why I had the money to spend on the delete kit was because I got lucky and won 3 grand from the dealer during their spin it to win deal. Also because its more of a hassle to have all that junk on in the first place. (not to mention I picked up 6MPG off the get go)
I just know what it takes for a company to survive, I can spend all day looking at blueprints and paperwork. I can look all day at how I am going to wire a building, but unless I have the authorization to do so, I am going no where. If I have lost a few years waiting for engineers to give me the go ahead, I have made no money. In fact I probably have lost quite a bit. Suddenly they give me the go ahead and now suddenly I have to make up costs. Also the same reason why we warranty our equipment to certain time frames. If we offered warranty for life, we would go broke!
IMO its works pretty similar to bully. They can't offer everything for free, its gonna break somewhere...
I don't think its a matter of the problem with the engine, or even the truck being different. Its the simple fact that the tuner has to work differently to access the computer to upload the tune. It has to CHANGE all the coding inside the computer, in order to do that you need to access it first. Which in the case of a new computer=different access. Its not using the same firmware or the same numbers to do that. Therefore your gonna need new ones...
This whole microsoft thing, its still windows 8 or 7, its still their own system, their own security. They own all rights to whatever they update or work on. Its totally different here. Chrysler did NOT want any access to these computers for their own reasoning. Bully can't just go into their system and run some beta tests and then put out an update. Also Just because diablo did not charge you doesn't mean they are going to be better. Have you compared each tuner to see exactly what each one does? Rumor has it to me that diablo does not support transmission shift points yet...again just rumors, but maybe by paying a little more, you are receiving more.
It could also be that we are just seeing the start of per vehicle tuning or per year tuning. I know it has not been like that EVER, but MAYBE its a start. I said it in a previous post that its getting harder and harder to make a tune. If you don't know this already but H&S has STOPPED production of ALL diesel products. I also believe that Bully had to shut down their diesel line as well. The governments/environmentalists have shut them down, and its not gonna get better anytime soon. It is not soo bad yet here in Alberta because we have no provincial regulations (Yet) but I know in BC it is fineable whenever you have black smoke coming out the pipe. Its getting tougher, and has been for a few years. Maybe we are starting to see it with gassers now too...If I remember right, in California all tuners are illegal. (But maybe someone could chime in on that, I think I read it on both bullies and diablos site)
I am not trying to side with bully, nor am I trying to side with you. I just look at it this way, (I have said it before) at least bullydog gave you the option of an unlock code. They could have said heck with them guys they could buy a whole new tuner. I don't have much experience with diablo, other then the crappy tech support and email response times. Nor do I really know their line of products and what kind of tuning and special features they do...You also brought up somewhere here that bullydog has been supported for many years. How long do you think bullydog can go by just releasing "free" updates before they go broke? If I remember right the GT has been out for quite a long time...If they can't release a new product without guys yipping at them because they advertise "free updates" they are gonna go out of business. It will get to the point where they are not selling anymore tuners because everyone already has them. All they do now is move it from vehicle to vehicle and expect updates. At least the trinity is still a fairly new unit (to my knowledge) With the diesel line shut down, they lost half their profit...
I am just looking at it from both ways I guess, thats why companies have such a thing as product mark-up. They need to make up their overhead somehow or they go under. Ya sure they gotta keep customers happy, but they will be less happy if you go under because your overhead is too high...
Don't be too quick to judge me personally either, Yes I work, and I work hard. I work in the trade workers capital of Canada. There is always a job here in Alberta, what I meant was I don't work for bully. The only reason I upgrade every 2 years or so is because the deal that I receive on all Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles. Take that 150 grand you quoted, and change it to the price of Canadian vehicles new. (To around 220 grand) and cut that in half, and you get close to what I have paid for all three vehicles together. I can walk into any dealership and get a better deal then the owner of the dealer can. I'm not trying to rub that in, just trying to say I definitely don't make as much money as you think I do...Just because I drive new trucks doesn't mean I have money, frankly I have never even owned any of these trucks the banks do. I don't mean to sound mad, because I am not. But it does disgust me when people look at my truck and think I have all the money in the world to spend. The only reason why I had the money to spend on the delete kit was because I got lucky and won 3 grand from the dealer during their spin it to win deal. Also because its more of a hassle to have all that junk on in the first place. (not to mention I picked up 6MPG off the get go)
I just know what it takes for a company to survive, I can spend all day looking at blueprints and paperwork. I can look all day at how I am going to wire a building, but unless I have the authorization to do so, I am going no where. If I have lost a few years waiting for engineers to give me the go ahead, I have made no money. In fact I probably have lost quite a bit. Suddenly they give me the go ahead and now suddenly I have to make up costs. Also the same reason why we warranty our equipment to certain time frames. If we offered warranty for life, we would go broke!
IMO its works pretty similar to bully. They can't offer everything for free, its gonna break somewhere...
#34
01-09-2013, 01:40 AM
oh and about the NAV in motion. For those of us who wanted to expand our hard drive space and loose the voice activated NAV. (430N instead of the 730N) We HAVE to stopped and in park to change where we are going. You know how on on most map apps, or nav screens you touch it and you can drag to see turns etc? Well we have to be stopped to do that. We can only see the first 10-15 closed POI spots without being locked out. Basically anything that involves typing, and the dragging of your finger is locked out. Which kinda sucks, but its the law. This unlock code bypasses that allowing us to operate it. We can also drive with the DVD on then, but thats a little overdoing it. The only reason I could see that is for the passenger...
Just thought I would clarify that...
Just thought I would clarify that...
#35
01-09-2013, 07:55 AM
Join Date: Sep 2012
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#36
01-09-2013, 08:26 AM
I have a family member that works for Air Canada. Well Air Canada and Chrysler/Fiat are both members of another company. I am sorry I can't remember which. But basically because they are both in partnership they give all Air Canada members deals through Chrysler. This also includes all the Immediate family members.
So basically I get employee pricing whenever I want, and the dealers have to give that to me. This is also the reason why I have such a hard time buying because as soon as I say that Air Canada deal, they stop dealing with me. Because they know they are loosing money on me.
On top of that employee pricing I get what they call Air Canada bonus cash, this can be anywhere from 1000 bucks to 10000 bucks. All depends on the month and how Chrysler is doing.
So upon purchase of my latest truck I received both deals. Which the bonus cash was 7200, I also received the no charge cummins. So I won't tell you what the total price was, but you will cringe when you hear it...
That is the only reason why I do what I do. Otherwise I would buy used, and possibly even go to a "bow-tie" as someone else stated...
#37
01-10-2013, 10:35 AM
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