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4th Gen Ram Tech2009 - 2018 Rams and the 2019 Ram Classic: This section is for TECHNICAL discussions only, that involve the 2009 - 2018 Rams and the 2019 Ram Classic. For any non-tech discussions, please direct your attention to the "General discussion/NON-tech" sub sections.
2010 RAM 1500 SLT crew cab, 5.7hemi
notice the noise for the first time about 2 months ago.
since yeterday I have done lots of kms listen for it and it really seems to be gone.
still I cannot beleive a flash of pcm would take away a knocking noise... but it seems so this time...
hope its not just a plaster over the actual problem...
Have you noticed any difference in the way the transmission shifts or in the MDS activation cycle (i.e. MDS activates at higher speed)?
This PCM flash appears to be a somewhat obscure customer satisfaction TSB to address the drone/vibration issue in addition to other issues and was introduced late in 2014. It is apparently applicable to MY 2010 to 2014 Rams.
I'm quite familiar with the "drone" but it's been out of mind as of late because most of the truck's operation has been in ERS due to the mechanical clatter associated with MDS operation. However, the drone was present when the truck was new and it's the same today. Noticeably more intense in colder weather. At temperatures around freezing and at low speeds with MDS on, the drone will literally buzz the go pedal. I accept it as an idiosyncrasy of MDS operation but not associated with the clattering/ticking issue at the heart of this thread.
It's good that the flash appears to have resolved your issue but it'd sure be nice to know what the flash actually did to the PCM to make that happen.
Have you noticed any difference in the way the transmission shifts or in the MDS activation cycle (i.e. MDS activates at higher speed)?
This PCM flash appears to be a somewhat obscure customer satisfaction TSB to address the drone/vibration issue in addition to other issues and was introduced late in 2014. It is apparently applicable to MY 2010 to 2014 Rams.
I'm quite familiar with the "drone" but it's been out of mind as of late because most of the truck's operation has been in ERS due to the mechanical clatter associated with MDS operation. However, the drone was present when the truck was new and it's the same today. Noticeably more intense in colder weather. At temperatures around freezing and at low speeds with MDS on, the drone will literally buzz the go pedal. I accept it as an idiosyncrasy of MDS operation but not associated with the clattering/ticking issue at the heart of this thread.
It's good that the flash appears to have resolved your issue but it'd sure be nice to know what the flash actually did to the PCM to make that happen.
All the best,
Keith
My ticking noise was there all the time when eco light was on. Very noticable from 25km/h throught 55km/h slower the eco mode goes off faster the wind noise would hide it. When coasting the noise was really a echo that sounded like an old 1986 vw golf deisel was behind me a few cars away. Now I cannot seemed to get it to act up. The truck seems to have more take off shift smoother idles more smootlhy and not sure yet but does not seem to activate has much when driving att100km/h but that could be tempature related its colder now around here.
Have you noticed any difference in the way the transmission shifts or in the MDS activation cycle (i.e. MDS activates at higher speed)?
This PCM flash appears to be a somewhat obscure customer satisfaction TSB to address the drone/vibration issue in addition to other issues and was introduced late in 2014. It is apparently applicable to MY 2010 to 2014 Rams.
I'm quite familiar with the "drone" but it's been out of mind as of late because most of the truck's operation has been in ERS due to the mechanical clatter associated with MDS operation. However, the drone was present when the truck was new and it's the same today. Noticeably more intense in colder weather. At temperatures around freezing and at low speeds with MDS on, the drone will literally buzz the go pedal. I accept it as an idiosyncrasy of MDS operation but not associated with the clattering/ticking issue at the heart of this thread.
It's good that the flash appears to have resolved your issue but it'd sure be nice to know what the flash actually did to the PCM to make that happen.
All the best,
Keith
Hi Keith,
Referring to Badjojo's last message, I was also thinking the flash may have raised the transmission shift engine speeds, which may have an affect of masking the noise.
Since he's got a 2010, I'm wondering if he's actually hearing an exhaust leak.
Referring to Badjojo's last message, I was also thinking the flash may have raised the transmission shift engine speeds, which may have an affect of masking the noise.
Since he's got a 2010, I'm wondering if he's actually hearing an exhaust leak.
Bests,
Dusty
in may i had them replace the manifold for an exhaust leak that was only appenning on start up. So there are no more exhaust leaks
My wallet is much lighter today but that's been offset in that it appears that my MDS rattle/tick is... GONE!
I'm gonna put some miles on the beast this coming weekend just so I know it's not just a bad case of post repair delusion. If confirmed, I'll detail what came out of the engine and what went in.
My wallet is much lighter today but that's been offset in that it appears that my MDS rattle/tick is... GONE!
I'm gonna put some miles on the beast this coming weekend just so I know it's not just a bad case of post repair delusion. If confirmed, I'll detail what came out of the engine and what went in.
More to follow...
Keith
I tempered my earlier elation and rightly so. After replacing the timing chain (TC), tensioner and guide, it initially appeared (sounded) as though this issue had been cured. Then it started. That oh so familiar rattle. Very subtle at first, then ever more pronounced as the miles ticked by. Over 500 miles now since the new parts went in and we’re about back to where we started. Yep, a little disappointing but at least I no longer have to wonder/worry about what was going on under that timing chain cover. I spent countless hrs researching the TC issue for the 09 to 12 cars (cars and trucks used the same parts) and eventually had myself convinced that the components were worn well past where they ought to be. I had to know.
So what about the condition of the old parts? From the service dept’s perspective, there was nothing wrong with them. I’m certain they thought I was loco. I was surprised too. I honestly expected we would find a severely worn tensioner and guide and that was the lion’s share of the impetus for having a CJDR dealer do the work. The tensioner and guide did exhibit some wear but was considered to be far less than would otherwise be expected for an engine with over 100k km on the clock. The service dept was also surprised at how clean the TC area was. I’ll attribute that to the engine’s regular diet of M1.
Notwithstanding the tensioner and guide being considered fit for further service, the parts exhibit some rather interesting erosion (depicted below) in line with the path of TC. I would have replaced these parts based purely on this condition. The erosion is consistent with what many of the car folks found and prompts me to wonder if the base material for the early tensioner and guide was a factor in the failures associated with the Challengers, Chargers and 300s. The latest version of the tensioner (53022115AH) appears physically similar to prior units but I suspect the material has changed. The latest guide (4893429AA) was redesigned (aluminum alloy with a shoe) and bears little resemblance to its predecessor except in that it’s a TC guide.
While researching the TC issue and pondering the interaction of the cam phaser, I happened onto some information relating to failures associated with the early VCT oil control valves (OCV). Apparently the oil filter screens on the retard and advance ports of the OCV were failing and in some cases pieces of screen were getting into the valve and compromising its operation. This would typically result in a camshaft out of phase and result in associated DTCs (P0016, P000B) being set. CJDR issued a Star Case (S1118000063) early in 2012 to remove the fwd and aft screens from new OCVs when replacement was required. Shortly thereafter, a redesigned OCV, eliminated the screens, was released into service. Yep, although I’ve never seen those DTCs on the truck, I’m thinking that I’d like to get that beastie out of the engine too. Of course this would add considerably to the bill because the OCV is hiding under the intake plenum. Nevertheless, bit the bullet on that and glad I did. The image below depicts a section of missing screen and there was a collapsed section on the other side (visible in second image). Put some e-power to the valve and it appears to function just fine. Disassembled the valve and could find no damage that could be associated with the missing screen. So where did that junk end up? The oil filter, I hope…
Think I’m gonna investigate that PCM flash that Badjojo made ref to…
All the best,
Keith
Last edited by CHILLYPOND; Oct 18, 2015 at 06:19 PM.
I tempered my earlier elation and rightly so. After replacing the timing chain (TC), tensioner and guide, it initially appeared (sounded) as though this issue had been cured. Then it started. That oh so familiar rattle. Very subtle at first, then ever more pronounced as the miles ticked by. Over 500 miles now since the new parts went in and we’re about back to where we started. Yep, a little disappointing but at least I no longer have to wonder/worry about what was going on under that timing chain cover. I spent countless hrs researching the TC issue for the 09 to 12 cars (cars and trucks used the same parts) and eventually had myself convinced that the components were worn well past where they ought to be. I had to know.
So what about the condition of the old parts? From the service dept’s perspective, there was nothing wrong with them. I’m certain they thought I was loco. I was surprised too. I honestly expected we would find a severely worn tensioner and guide and that was the lion’s share of the impetus for having a CJDR dealer do the work. The tensioner and guide did exhibit some wear but was considered to be far less than would otherwise be expected for an engine with over 100k km on the clock. The service dept was also surprised at how clean the TC area was. I’ll attribute that to the engine’s regular diet of M1.
Notwithstanding the tensioner and guide being considered fit for further service, the parts exhibit some rather interesting erosion (depicted below) in line with the path of TC. I would have replaced these parts based purely on this condition. The erosion is consistent with what many of the car folks found and prompts me to wonder if the base material for the early tensioner and guide was a factor in the failures associated with the Challengers, Chargers and 300s. The latest version of the tensioner (53022115AH) appears physically similar to prior units but I suspect the material has changed. The latest guide (4893429AA) was redesigned (aluminum alloy with a shoe) and bears little resemblance to its predecessor except in that it’s a TC guide.
While researching the TC issue and pondering the interaction of the cam phaser, I happened onto some information relating to failures associated with the early VCT oil control valves (OCV). Apparently the oil filter screens on the retard and advance ports of the OCV were failing and in some cases pieces of screen were getting into the valve and compromising its operation. This would typically result in a camshaft out of phase and result in associated DTCs (P0016, P000B) being set. CJDR issued a Star Case (S1118000063) early in 2012 to remove the fwd and aft screens from new OCVs when replacement was required. Shortly thereafter, a redesigned OCV, eliminated the screens, was released into service. Yep, although I’ve never seen those DTCs on the truck, I’m thinking that I’d like to get that beastie out of the engine too. Of course this would add considerably to the bill because the OCV is hiding under the intake plenum. Nevertheless, bit the bullet on that and glad I did. The image below depicts a section of missing screen and there was a collapsed section on the other side (visible in second image). Put some e-power to the valve and it appears to function just fine. Disassembled the valve and could find no damage that could be associated with the missing screen. So where did that junk end up? The oil filter, I hope…
Think I’m gonna investigate that PCM flash that Badjojo made ref to…
All the best,
Keith
I have to jump it and say thanks to you chillypond/Keith, I'm glad someone who its trying to tackle this issue is kind enough to share any and all related information. I too will be going in for said ecm reflash as soon as I get the chance and we will see if it does anything for the noise. It has become a habit for me to click the my manual gear selector to 5 when I'm taking off in my truck. I had to rent a car for my recent trip to Missouri because I'm certain that while its making this noise my truck ain't gon make a 5 hour drive. Kinda sad when a five year old truck can't be considered reliable.
I tempered my earlier elation and rightly so. After replacing the timing chain (TC), tensioner and guide, it initially appeared (sounded) as though this issue had been cured. Then it started. That oh so familiar rattle. Very subtle at first, then ever more pronounced as the miles ticked by. Over 500 miles now since the new parts went in and we’re about back to where we started. Yep, a little disappointing but at least I no longer have to wonder/worry about what was going on under that timing chain cover. I spent countless hrs researching the TC issue for the 09 to 12 cars (cars and trucks used the same parts) and eventually had myself convinced that the components were worn well past where they ought to be. I had to know.
So what about the condition of the old parts? From the service dept’s perspective, there was nothing wrong with them. I’m certain they thought I was loco. I was surprised too. I honestly expected we would find a severely worn tensioner and guide and that was the lion’s share of the impetus for having a CJDR dealer do the work. The tensioner and guide did exhibit some wear but was considered to be far less than would otherwise be expected for an engine with over 100k km on the clock. The service dept was also surprised at how clean the TC area was. I’ll attribute that to the engine’s regular diet of M1.
Notwithstanding the tensioner and guide being considered fit for further service, the parts exhibit some rather interesting erosion (depicted below) in line with the path of TC. I would have replaced these parts based purely on this condition. The erosion is consistent with what many of the car folks found and prompts me to wonder if the base material for the early tensioner and guide was a factor in the failures associated with the Challengers, Chargers and 300s. The latest version of the tensioner (53022115AH) appears physically similar to prior units but I suspect the material has changed. The latest guide (4893429AA) was redesigned (aluminum alloy with a shoe) and bears little resemblance to its predecessor except in that it’s a TC guide.
While researching the TC issue and pondering the interaction of the cam phaser, I happened onto some information relating to failures associated with the early VCT oil control valves (OCV). Apparently the oil filter screens on the retard and advance ports of the OCV were failing and in some cases pieces of screen were getting into the valve and compromising its operation. This would typically result in a camshaft out of phase and result in associated DTCs (P0016, P000B) being set. CJDR issued a Star Case (S1118000063) early in 2012 to remove the fwd and aft screens from new OCVs when replacement was required. Shortly thereafter, a redesigned OCV, eliminated the screens, was released into service. Yep, although I’ve never seen those DTCs on the truck, I’m thinking that I’d like to get that beastie out of the engine too. Of course this would add considerably to the bill because the OCV is hiding under the intake plenum. Nevertheless, bit the bullet on that and glad I did. The image below depicts a section of missing screen and there was a collapsed section on the other side (visible in second image). Put some e-power to the valve and it appears to function just fine. Disassembled the valve and could find no damage that could be associated with the missing screen. So where did that junk end up? The oil filter, I hope…
Think I’m gonna investigate that PCM flash that Badjojo made ref to…
All the best,
Keith
Hi Keith,
There are two of those oil control solenoids under the intake manifold. Did they replace both?
I guess from your write up this work didn't resolve your problem. Replacing everything but the timing chain didn't resolve mine, either.
I have to jump it and say thanks to you chillypond/Keith, I'm glad someone who its trying to tackle this issue is kind enough to share any and all related information. I too will be going in for said ecm reflash as soon as I get the chance and we will see if it does anything for the noise.
Happy to share. I am painfully aware of how frustrating this issue is for the assorted Ram owners that are dealing with this. Interestingly, the MDS drone/vibration, especially at low speeds, has become quite obnoxious since replacing the TC components thus my interest in the TSB that badjojo made ref to and in the interest of spreading the word, I’ve excerpted the meat of the document below:
TSB 18-050-14 REV. A
FLASH: Drone or Vibration Present During MDS Operation
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
A small number of customers may experience a drone or vibration type condition while driving at highway speeds during MDS (Multiple Displacement System) operation. The following powertrain system improvements/enhancements are also included in this software release:
• Improved Electronic Voltage Regulator control to more precisely maintain system voltage.
• Enhanced Automatic Oil Change Indicator (EAOCI) system enhancements that force the use of the severe duty cycle algorithm anytime the PCM is replaced. The vehicle duty cycle information used in the EAOCI calculation is stored in the PCM and cannot be recovered/transferred when the controller is replaced. As a result, the severe duty cycle is used in these scenarios to ensure the customer receives a timely oil change required message (Applies only to 2013 MY vehicles).
• P0300 - Multiple Cylinder Misfire (Only applies to vehicles using a block heater in ambient temperatures greater than -20°F(-29°C))
NUMBER: 18-050-14
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: September 19, 2014
Had a chat with the service manager at the local dealer and he confirmed that this TSB is applicable to 2010 thru 2013 1500 Rams depending on the sale code. It excludes my truck (2009) and we were unable to determine why. He said he’d get after Chryco engineering (good on him) to determine why a 2009 Ram PCM can’t be flashed with the TSB in question given that the 09 powertrains are literally identical to the 2010 variety and that many of the 2009 trucks exhibit the same operating anomalies the TSB is intended to address.
The PCM part no’s that badjojo provided are unique to his particular truck (MY and configuration). In fact, there are well over 100 different PCM part no’s covered by this TSB. The part no of a particular PCM denotes the existing software load. Any decent scan tool should tell you what your current PCM part no (software load) is. Then go here to determine if your PCM is covered by the TSB.
There are two of those oil control solenoids under the intake manifold. Did they replace both?
Dusty, I only replaced one VCT OCV because... there is only one. The other one is hiding where?
Originally Posted by Dusty48
I guess from your write up this work didn't resolve your problem. Replacing everything but the timing chain didn't resolve mine, either.
Indeed, after over 600 miles, the rattle/tick is as prominent as it ever has been. Worse, the MDS drone/vibration has become an insult to the senses. Why? And why did the rattle/tick appear to be gone after installation of new TC components and ever so insidiously, come back to haunt me. Dunno but I'm not giving up just yet.
Regards,
Keith
Last edited by CHILLYPOND; Oct 24, 2015 at 02:32 AM.
Aug 17, 2015, 12:34 PM
