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Dodge Cares, Why are the manifold bolts breaking?

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Dodge Cares, Why are the manifold bolts breaking?

  #1  
Old 11-27-2017, 05:33 AM
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Default Dodge Cares, Why are the manifold bolts breaking?

This seems to be a sensitive subject but why are the manifold bolts breaking and what is Dodge doing to prevent this or fix the problem?
 
  #2  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:25 PM
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My guess is they hired an engineer from Ford and he thought steel bolts threw a cast manifold into an aluminum head was a good idea. It's not like aluminum, cast, and aluminum cool and heat up at different rates.
 
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:20 PM
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It is a well known fact that the back cylinders run hot on the hemi. 7 & 8 run hotter than the rest, hard to get cooling back there. FCA is not going to redesign the 5.7 and better the bolts snap than strip the aluminum head. I had the bolts (2009 SLT CC) changed before they broke (TSB), and they still broke on both sides on separate times. I'm in a 2017 Big Horn and have my fingers crossed.
 

Last edited by Pedro Dog; 11-28-2017 at 09:26 PM. Reason: added year model
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:36 PM
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Not like dodge is the first manufacturer to combine three different metals in that area...... they've been doing that for years, without these kinds of issues. Where do the bolts break at?
 
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:17 AM
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As I mentioned, the back cylinders run extra hot on the hemi. The other manufacturers probably do a better job at cooling the back cylinders. The bolts mostly snap at the head leaving a stub to grab when the manifold is removed.
 
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Dog View Post
As I mentioned, the back cylinders run extra hot on the hemi. The other manufacturers probably do a better job at cooling the back cylinders. The bolts mostly snap at the head leaving a stub to grab when the manifold is removed.
Wonder if enlarging the holes a bit, and using better quality bolts would solve the issue......
 
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HeyYou View Post
Wonder if enlarging the holes a bit, and using better quality bolts would solve the issue......
I'm sure FCA has studied this issue and has had ample time to make changes but broken bolts continue to be a problem. I would expect that if they had a easy fix they would have made it to save money on the warranty repairs. As a retired aerospace/electrical engineer, I've had some experience with aircraft fastener failures. One particular problem we worked on, was a failure mode only when the plane was flying at certain altitudes. We did not understand the failure mode but the company I worked for provided us with the #1 fastener expert (I never knew someone could be a PHD is this stuff), even he could not figure it out. We ended up instrumenting the separate components (accelerometers) and even mounted a camera focused on the fastener. The final fix was to change the torque settings on the original fastener.
 
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Dog View Post
I'm sure FCA has studied this issue and has had ample time to make changes but broken bolts continue to be a problem. I would expect that if they had a easy fix they would have made it to save money on the warranty repairs. As a retired aerospace/electrical engineer, I've had some experience with aircraft fastener failures. One particular problem we worked on, was a failure mode only when the plane was flying at certain altitudes. We did not understand the failure mode but the company I worked for provided us with the #1 fastener expert (I never knew someone could be a PHD is this stuff), even he could not figure it out. We ended up instrumenting the separate components (accelerometers) and even mounted a camera focused on the fastener. The final fix was to change the torque settings on the original fastener.
That seems like a rather simple solution...... could it really be that easy on the trucks?

Maybe shorty headers are the answer..... does the problem still present itself with other than stock manifolds? Looking at the stock design, the rear of the manifold appears to flow ALL the exhaust..... so yeah, it's gonna be hotter.... separating the flow from the individual cylinders *should* dramatically reduce the heat concentration at the rear...... For the folks that are out of warranty, seems replacing the manifolds with something better, and paying the labor once, would be a better option?
 
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:07 PM
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Here is the TSB done on my 2009 and the bolts still broke on both sides

TSB 11-002-11

This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system,
or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, or otherwise, without written permission of Chrysler Group LLC.
THIS SERVICE BULLETIN IS ALSO BEING RELEASED AS RAPID RESPONSE
TRANSMITTAL 11-017. ALL APPLICABLE SOLD AND UN-SOLD VIN's HAVE BEEN
LOADED. TO VERIFY THAT THIS SERVICE ACTION IS APPLICABLE TO THE
VEHICLE, USE VIP OR PERFORM A VIN SEARCH IN TECHCONNECT. ALL REPAIRS
ARE REIMBURSABLE WITHIN THE PROVISIONS OF WARRANTY.
SUBJECT:
Engine Ticking Sound In Cold Temperatures
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves replace the exhaust manifold bolts for cylinders 7 and 8 with new
stainless steel higher strength bolts.
MODELS:
2009 (DS) Ram 1500 Pickup
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 5.7L engine (Sales code EZD
or EZH) built before August 14, 2009 (MDH 0814XX).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Some Customers may notice a ticking sound heard at start-up in cold ambient
temperatures. This sound could be less noticeable as the engine warms to normal
operating temperature. This condition may be caused by broken or loose exhaust manifold
bolts for cylinders 7 and 8.
DIAGNOSIS:
If customers complain of the symptom/condition, perform the following repair procedure.
PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description
4 06509544AA Stud, Exhaust Manifold (7 & 8 cylinders)
AR (9) 06507746AA Bolt, Exhaust Manifold (only necessary if
exhaust manifolds are removed)
AR (1) 53032965AF Gasket, Left Exhaust Manifold (only
necessary if exhaust manifolds are removed)
AR (1) 53032966AF Gasket, Right Exhaust Manifold (only
necessary if exhaust manifolds are removed)
NUMBER: 11-002-11
GROUP: Exhaust System
DATE: February 17, 2011REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. Raise vehicle on a hoist.
2. Remove the exhaust manifold heat shields from both sides.
NOTE: The exhaust manifold bolts may be broken. If possible use vise grips to
attempt removal without removing the exhaust manifold.
3. Remove exhaust manifold bolts on cylinder 7.
4. Can bolts be removed without removing exhaust manifold?
a. Yes >>> Replace exhaust manifold bolts (2 only) torque to 25 Nm (18 Ft. Lbs.),
install heat shield, torque to 8 Nm (70 In. Lbs.) and proceed to Step #5
b. No >>> Remove exhaust manifold remove and replace all bolts, replace exhaust
manifold gasket. Follow the detailed service procedures available in
DealerCONNECT/TechCONNECT, Refer To Group 9 - Engine > Manifolds >
Manifold, Exhaust, Installation procedures. Proceed to Step #5
5. Remove exhaust manifold bolts on cylinder 8.
6. Can bolts be removed without removing exhaust manifold?
a. Yes >>> Replace exhaust manifold bolts (2 only) torque to 25 Nm (18 Ft. Lbs.),
install heat shield, torque to 8 Nm (70 In. Lbs.).
b. No >>> Remove exhaust manifold remove and replace all bolts, replace exhaust
manifold gasket. Follow the detailed service procedures available in
DealerCONNECT/TechCONNECT, Refer To Group 9 - Engine > Manifolds >
Manifold, Exhaust, Installation procedures.
POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.
TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation
No:
Description Amount
09-45-01-94 Exhaust Manifold Bolts Cylinder 7 and 8 Replace
(B)
1.3 Hrs.
09-45-01-97 Exhaust Manifold Bolts Cylinder 7 Replace /
Broken Exhaust Manifold Bolts Cylinder 8 (B)
1.9 Hrs.
09-45-01-98 Exhaust Manifold Bolts Cylinder 8 Replace /
Broken Exhaust Manifold Bolts Cylinder 7 (B)
1.9 Hrs.
09-45-01-99 Exhaust Manifold Bolts Broken Exhaust Manifold
Bolts Cylinder 7 and 8 (B)
2.4 Hrs.
FAILURE CODE:
ZZ Service Action
11-002-11 -2-
 
  #10  
Old 11-29-2017, 12:15 PM
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Alright, so they are already trying better fasteners...... and: built thru aug 09..... so, what changed with the later models, that solved the issue? Or, was it actually solved?
 

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