Eagle Hemi Swap timing problems.
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06-08-2023, 03:01 PM
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Eagle Hemi Swap timing problems.
I need some MAJOR help and it may be that I just need help pushing this truck over a cliff. I'll give you the backstory first but, I'm having a hell of a time getting the timing to work. I'll explain in detail below.
Backstory:
My 2007 truck dropped a rod a blew holes in the block. I had the bright idea of swapping in a 2009 Eagle Hemi into the truck along with everything needed to have the VVT and SRV systems working.
I found a 2009 engine for a reasonable price. I tore it apart to make sure everything was good and found it had a bad cam due to a lifter dying and chewing it up. So great time to put a better cam in. Here is a list of EXACTLY what I did.
- Cleaned the block and removed all of the carbon from the cylinders. I did not remove the crankshaft, rods, or pistons.
- Installed a cam from a VVT, MDS, 6.4L
- Replaced 4 of the lifters
- Replaced all of the valve springs with Enginetech ERV1451 springs. I made sure to remove the old seat/spacer and only use the 1mm shim packaged with the springs.
- Replaced the PCM with a PCM from a 2009 Ram 1500
- Added wiring for the SRV
- Added wiring for the VVT
- Replaced the VVT Solenoid
- Replaced the timing chain, crank sprocket, chain tensioner, and the chain guide
- Installed an oil pump from a Hellcat motor
- Extended the wiring on the IAT, ETC and the MAP sensor connector.
- Changed the connector on the cam shaft sensor from the '07 version to the 09' version
There were other issues but, nothing that I think would be relevant to this issue.
Results:
The motor ran fine at first. Or at least it seemed to while parked. I let it idle to operating temp to just make sure everything was working.
The next day I started it up and drove it. It went into limp mode and wouldn't shift into high gear or rev above 3000 RPM. I parked it for a bit and cleared the PCM. When I started it again it stayed out of Limp mode. When I drove it was fine for a few feet and then a loud whine and loss of power. Every time I pushed on the gas it would whine and lose power. I can only describe it as a transmission that was slipping out of gear. I stopped and checked everything. After that it drove fine but only in Limp mode. I figured it was because I had cleared the LP counters. I chalked it up to a temporary transmission issue.
Reading the codes I was getting a ton of codes for crank/cam issues. I replaced both the cam sensor and crank sensor with car quest sensors from Advance and attempted to have the PCM relearn them. The truck would immediately go into limp once started. I then bought NTK sensors and tried them. Same problems. I rechecked the wiring, pulled the intake and checked the VVT solenoid, and double checked the oil. No change. At this point I can drive the truck but not over 55mph and it won't shift into high gear as it's obviously in limp mode. My next thought was to reinstall the original cam sensor. I got different codes but, I noticed I could get it to stay out of limp mode for a bit. Revving it past 3000 and everything sounded good and then that loud whine and immediately into limp mode. So now I know the whine is not the transmission but, I'm completely at a loss as to what it is.
Here is a better summary with what I was seeing on the scan tool.
First Start after rebuild old crankshaft sensor and old camshaft sensor:
- Multiple codes for crankshaft/camshaft. Squeal at higher RPMs with loss of power and immediate limp mode.
New CarQuest Camshaft and Crankshaft sensors installed:
- Limp mode on start
- P0344 and P0340 codes
- Cam Sync = No Sync
- Cam/Crank Difference = 30° (This value will only change at startup and doesn't not change while running it does bounce around 29° and 32°. One time it went to 8L)
New NTK Camshaft and Crankshaft sensors installed:
- Limp mode on start
- P0344 and P0340 codes
- Cam Sync = No Sync
- Cam/Crank Difference = 30°
New Crankshaft Sensor original Camshaft Sensor:
- Limp mode after running for a few minutes
- P0016 set at start
- Cam Sync = Synced
- Cam/Crank Difference = 30° ( With the original sensor this value will change while idling but, not by much)
- While not in limp mode I can rev over 3000 RPM at which point it will randomly let out a loud squeal and drop RPMs. This happened in idle.
Does anyone have any ideas on what to look for?
Any ideas on the load high pitched noise that randomly happens over 3000 RPM?
Any thoughts on checking timing without pulling the timing cover?
Can a VVT sprocket go bad?
I have ordered a new Mopar camshaft sensor to see if that helps. I am trying to avoid taking the timing cover off but, I think I'm going to have too. I'm going to try and stick a borescope in the hole for the camshaft sensor to see if I can see anything wrong with the timing chain and sprockets.
Backstory:
My 2007 truck dropped a rod a blew holes in the block. I had the bright idea of swapping in a 2009 Eagle Hemi into the truck along with everything needed to have the VVT and SRV systems working.
I found a 2009 engine for a reasonable price. I tore it apart to make sure everything was good and found it had a bad cam due to a lifter dying and chewing it up. So great time to put a better cam in. Here is a list of EXACTLY what I did.
- Cleaned the block and removed all of the carbon from the cylinders. I did not remove the crankshaft, rods, or pistons.
- Installed a cam from a VVT, MDS, 6.4L
- Replaced 4 of the lifters
- Replaced all of the valve springs with Enginetech ERV1451 springs. I made sure to remove the old seat/spacer and only use the 1mm shim packaged with the springs.
- Replaced the PCM with a PCM from a 2009 Ram 1500
- Added wiring for the SRV
- Added wiring for the VVT
- Replaced the VVT Solenoid
- Replaced the timing chain, crank sprocket, chain tensioner, and the chain guide
- Installed an oil pump from a Hellcat motor
- Extended the wiring on the IAT, ETC and the MAP sensor connector.
- Changed the connector on the cam shaft sensor from the '07 version to the 09' version
There were other issues but, nothing that I think would be relevant to this issue.
Results:
The motor ran fine at first. Or at least it seemed to while parked. I let it idle to operating temp to just make sure everything was working.
The next day I started it up and drove it. It went into limp mode and wouldn't shift into high gear or rev above 3000 RPM. I parked it for a bit and cleared the PCM. When I started it again it stayed out of Limp mode. When I drove it was fine for a few feet and then a loud whine and loss of power. Every time I pushed on the gas it would whine and lose power. I can only describe it as a transmission that was slipping out of gear. I stopped and checked everything. After that it drove fine but only in Limp mode. I figured it was because I had cleared the LP counters. I chalked it up to a temporary transmission issue.
Reading the codes I was getting a ton of codes for crank/cam issues. I replaced both the cam sensor and crank sensor with car quest sensors from Advance and attempted to have the PCM relearn them. The truck would immediately go into limp once started. I then bought NTK sensors and tried them. Same problems. I rechecked the wiring, pulled the intake and checked the VVT solenoid, and double checked the oil. No change. At this point I can drive the truck but not over 55mph and it won't shift into high gear as it's obviously in limp mode. My next thought was to reinstall the original cam sensor. I got different codes but, I noticed I could get it to stay out of limp mode for a bit. Revving it past 3000 and everything sounded good and then that loud whine and immediately into limp mode. So now I know the whine is not the transmission but, I'm completely at a loss as to what it is.
Here is a better summary with what I was seeing on the scan tool.
First Start after rebuild old crankshaft sensor and old camshaft sensor:
- Multiple codes for crankshaft/camshaft. Squeal at higher RPMs with loss of power and immediate limp mode.
New CarQuest Camshaft and Crankshaft sensors installed:
- Limp mode on start
- P0344 and P0340 codes
- Cam Sync = No Sync
- Cam/Crank Difference = 30° (This value will only change at startup and doesn't not change while running it does bounce around 29° and 32°. One time it went to 8L)
New NTK Camshaft and Crankshaft sensors installed:
- Limp mode on start
- P0344 and P0340 codes
- Cam Sync = No Sync
- Cam/Crank Difference = 30°
New Crankshaft Sensor original Camshaft Sensor:
- Limp mode after running for a few minutes
- P0016 set at start
- Cam Sync = Synced
- Cam/Crank Difference = 30° ( With the original sensor this value will change while idling but, not by much)
- While not in limp mode I can rev over 3000 RPM at which point it will randomly let out a loud squeal and drop RPMs. This happened in idle.
Does anyone have any ideas on what to look for?
Any ideas on the load high pitched noise that randomly happens over 3000 RPM?
Any thoughts on checking timing without pulling the timing cover?
Can a VVT sprocket go bad?
I have ordered a new Mopar camshaft sensor to see if that helps. I am trying to avoid taking the timing cover off but, I think I'm going to have too. I'm going to try and stick a borescope in the hole for the camshaft sensor to see if I can see anything wrong with the timing chain and sprockets.