bailout shot down for now...
Champion
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,664
Likes: 0
From: University of Colorado-Boulder
when i toured the F150 plant, they bragged about how easy they had made the job for thw worker, with things like the rad support and pretty much everything on it, and the dash, with everything on it...already put together...the swing it into place with a hydraulic arm, and bolt it down. the job has gotten easier over the last 50 years, and the union reps need to recognize that, and be a little less shortsighted for the sake of their industry.
very well said
Thread Starter
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The Forum Tyrant
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 27,728
Likes: 3
From: Puttin' Detroit City back on the map.
again, im not trying to bust on union workers, just the unions who arent willing to work with the govt...well, arent willing to listen to the govts demands.
Legend
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,663
Likes: 8
From: Central Oklahoma
i think that UAW is going to be the demise of the Big 3... as you guys have been saying, at one day and time, unions were the sheit... they helped the little guy out and built up our economy, now tho they are the ones singlehandedly bringing down the three automakers that are synonimous with the good ole USA... they are outdated and need to be scaled back and completly revamped if GM, Ford, and Chrysler are ever going to have a chance at competing with the new import mega-sellers.
Record Breaker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 0
From: Central NY
I'm a unionized engineer for a utility (not an automaker's union), and I think my 4 year engineering degree and job complexity makes my wage 100% justified; the same with the certified welders and pipefitters and linemen I work with.
One of the main reasons that non-union pay and benefits are so good is because from the employer's perspective, a very possible alternative is labor organization and eventually a major union setting up within the company. Better for them to volunteer competitive benefits and pay, rather than risk the chance of negotiations, strikes, lockouts, etc...
So before you go around bashing, consider that your employers aren't giving you competitve benefits and pay because they love you so much, and are just really swell folks.
But I do see the other side; there is a *nightmare* of a contract negotiation dragging out in another division of my company.
I'm not sure I agree that the *claimed* wage levels at these plants is justified for the level of skill involved. In cases like this, where the survival of the company is on the line, it behooves the workers to take a hit. In Central NY, New Process Gear (now Magna Powertrain) has a very large facility that makes 4WD components for Chevy, Dodge and Ford. They took a MASSIVE pay cut to stay employed when the company said the factory was at risk of closing down. Massive...on the order of 30-50% less. Why? Because in a struggling northeastern economy, the pay still beat what they get from unemployment...and jobs are hard to find. Now 1,900 people in central NY are facing the loss of their sole customers. What is the UAW doing to stave off another possible shutdown? Talking about wage consessions. At least out here. they seem to have some sense about them.
Well I'd love to continue but my contract says I can leave at 4:30
One of the main reasons that non-union pay and benefits are so good is because from the employer's perspective, a very possible alternative is labor organization and eventually a major union setting up within the company. Better for them to volunteer competitive benefits and pay, rather than risk the chance of negotiations, strikes, lockouts, etc...
So before you go around bashing, consider that your employers aren't giving you competitve benefits and pay because they love you so much, and are just really swell folks.
But I do see the other side; there is a *nightmare* of a contract negotiation dragging out in another division of my company.
I'm not sure I agree that the *claimed* wage levels at these plants is justified for the level of skill involved. In cases like this, where the survival of the company is on the line, it behooves the workers to take a hit. In Central NY, New Process Gear (now Magna Powertrain) has a very large facility that makes 4WD components for Chevy, Dodge and Ford. They took a MASSIVE pay cut to stay employed when the company said the factory was at risk of closing down. Massive...on the order of 30-50% less. Why? Because in a struggling northeastern economy, the pay still beat what they get from unemployment...and jobs are hard to find. Now 1,900 people in central NY are facing the loss of their sole customers. What is the UAW doing to stave off another possible shutdown? Talking about wage consessions. At least out here. they seem to have some sense about them.
Well I'd love to continue but my contract says I can leave at 4:30
Champion
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,130
Likes: 0
From: Hamilton, Ontario
Yup, they aren't even qualified to be mechanics, and real mechanics don't even have a union.
Skilled trades don't even really have unions, those are more like brotherhoods(like the IBEW), much like the masons, except they don't have aristocrats making them look shady lol. Those brotherhoods and their members are well worth what they are paid because they do go through a lot to get where they are. Many of those trades have to go to school AND apprentice.
My dad is a teamster, and he makes pretty good money. He might not be the most skilled worker, but he makes up for it with how hard he works, and he has the damage to his body to prove it. I absolutely hate his union, because the are really good at cutting off their nose to spite their face. His union has brought him near bankruptcy twice, and everytime they return from a lengthy unnecessary strike, the employees get punished by the company, by way of losing things like the uniform service, safety awards etc. So my parents are just starting to climb out of debt from the last strike(about 10 years ago), they'll never clear the mortgage in their lifetime now, and dad has to wash his own work clothes and doesn't even get his annual safety awards anymore. Oh and from those strikes, he's never seen any better wages or benefits than what they already had. I just wanted to get that out there so people can see where my hatred comes from. Add that to the fact that it's hard to make it past the 3 month probation in most unionized workplaces because the company doesn't want you in the union.
Skilled trades don't even really have unions, those are more like brotherhoods(like the IBEW), much like the masons, except they don't have aristocrats making them look shady lol. Those brotherhoods and their members are well worth what they are paid because they do go through a lot to get where they are. Many of those trades have to go to school AND apprentice.
My dad is a teamster, and he makes pretty good money. He might not be the most skilled worker, but he makes up for it with how hard he works, and he has the damage to his body to prove it. I absolutely hate his union, because the are really good at cutting off their nose to spite their face. His union has brought him near bankruptcy twice, and everytime they return from a lengthy unnecessary strike, the employees get punished by the company, by way of losing things like the uniform service, safety awards etc. So my parents are just starting to climb out of debt from the last strike(about 10 years ago), they'll never clear the mortgage in their lifetime now, and dad has to wash his own work clothes and doesn't even get his annual safety awards anymore. Oh and from those strikes, he's never seen any better wages or benefits than what they already had. I just wanted to get that out there so people can see where my hatred comes from. Add that to the fact that it's hard to make it past the 3 month probation in most unionized workplaces because the company doesn't want you in the union.
Last edited by Nofrag; Dec 12, 2008 at 05:59 PM.
