bailout shot down for now...
Legend
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,663
Likes: 8
From: Central Oklahoma
Listening to the news on the radio is hysterical. These UAW morons talking about how they speak out for "the working man". Which working man? A news reporter asked the UAW President, "Don't you get 5 weeks vacation and 17 holidays off per year?" His response, "Uh, well, I could point you to Congress." What a dillhole.
Then, in the Thursday edition of USA Today, there's a story in the Money section about the town of Kokomo, Indiana. There's a Chrysler plant there and the Union people are sweating bullets. One couple is profiled as both work at the Chrysler plant. They BOTH drive SUV's (A Dodge Ram pickup and a Dodge Nitro) because, you know, they HAVE to drive what they build. Then comes the tale of woe -- NO LONGER can they take the kids to eat dinner four nights a week, eat out for lunch every day, or enjoy the VAST benefits of the UNION WAGES. Oh yeah, they live in one of those houses that bigger than a ByGod.
Are you EFFING KIDDING ME?????
But the best part of the story is that many of the townspeople DON'T support the labor union even though it would be a significant impact on the local economy.
Then, in the Thursday edition of USA Today, there's a story in the Money section about the town of Kokomo, Indiana. There's a Chrysler plant there and the Union people are sweating bullets. One couple is profiled as both work at the Chrysler plant. They BOTH drive SUV's (A Dodge Ram pickup and a Dodge Nitro) because, you know, they HAVE to drive what they build. Then comes the tale of woe -- NO LONGER can they take the kids to eat dinner four nights a week, eat out for lunch every day, or enjoy the VAST benefits of the UNION WAGES. Oh yeah, they live in one of those houses that bigger than a ByGod.
Are you EFFING KIDDING ME?????
But the best part of the story is that many of the townspeople DON'T support the labor union even though it would be a significant impact on the local economy.
Record Breaker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 0
From: Central NY
"Skilled trades don't even really have unions, those are more like brotherhoods(like the IBEW)"
True enough. I'm a brother, LU249.
You raise a good point, IBEW or a teacher's union or Steamfitters is a little different than CSEA or UAW. They're unions built around a fairly narrow set of skills. IBEW consists of basically interior and exterior electric, natural gas, electric railroad, and a couple related specialties.
Not to disparage hard working people, but the level skill isn't really a matter of opinion. You can't toss on a mask and weld a 500 PSI main to code. Almost all of the unionized jobs at my company, including mine, require at least a 3 year training progression to reach full qualification.
After about the 50th dashboard, anyone can learn how to fit it and wire it up, especially the way they design for manufacture nowadays. You could take that same person and put them in a KitchenAid factory assembling mixers, and they'd do just as well. You couldn't put them in a classroom, or a boiler room, and expect them to know what to do.
Are there skilled UAW jobs? Absolutely; I would want the guy cutting my transmission gears to be a good machinist. But is there fat to be trimmed? Has to be.
True enough. I'm a brother, LU249.
You raise a good point, IBEW or a teacher's union or Steamfitters is a little different than CSEA or UAW. They're unions built around a fairly narrow set of skills. IBEW consists of basically interior and exterior electric, natural gas, electric railroad, and a couple related specialties.
Not to disparage hard working people, but the level skill isn't really a matter of opinion. You can't toss on a mask and weld a 500 PSI main to code. Almost all of the unionized jobs at my company, including mine, require at least a 3 year training progression to reach full qualification.
After about the 50th dashboard, anyone can learn how to fit it and wire it up, especially the way they design for manufacture nowadays. You could take that same person and put them in a KitchenAid factory assembling mixers, and they'd do just as well. You couldn't put them in a classroom, or a boiler room, and expect them to know what to do.
Are there skilled UAW jobs? Absolutely; I would want the guy cutting my transmission gears to be a good machinist. But is there fat to be trimmed? Has to be.
Legend
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,663
Likes: 8
From: Central Oklahoma
^^ Not only that, but most teachers are dumber than a pile of rocks. Getting an incompetent teacher fired is almost impossible. The schools merely shuffle said dumbass around.
From the December 11 issue of USA Today.
Bailout or not, Ind. carmaking town fears end of era
But, but, that's *SKILLED UNION LABOR*!!!! Then again, the Unions are fighting for "the working man" :roll:
ZOMG!!! Union people have to live like everyone else??? That's ****ING OBSCENE!!!
Maybe it's because you think your **** smells like roses and that what you do is soooooooooo damned special. My son's fellow 7th graders could all be trained to do your jobs.
From the December 11 issue of USA Today.
Bailout or not, Ind. carmaking town fears end of era
Steve ***, who teaches finance and accounting at Indiana University-Kokomo, was surprised recently when he organized a class debate on the bailout and its opponents won easily.
*** says most students lack sympathy for blue-collar autoworkers, an attitude he summarizes as, "You can't expect to make $65,000 for a job you can learn in a month."
*** says most students lack sympathy for blue-collar autoworkers, an attitude he summarizes as, "You can't expect to make $65,000 for a job you can learn in a month."
The Durhams are a UAW family. Mike, 41, is a fourth-generation autoworker; his wife, Tina, 37, is second-generation. They met at Chrysler and now have three children. Their commute to the plant from their spacious ranch house takes three minutes. He drives a Dodge Ram pickup; she, a Dodge Durango. Both get about 12 miles a gallon. "You gotta drive what you make," Mike Durham says.
They are worried. They see people like them, with 15 years at Chrysler, taking $100,000 buyouts rather than sticking it out. "With two Chrysler incomes, money was never an issue," Tina Durham says. But now, "People say, 'You have all your eggs in one basket!' "
So, she says, "We're hoarding our money." The whole family used to eat out five times a week; now, Tina and Mike go out once a week, alone. Tina buys generic brands and has cut back on sweets and snacks. In the past, the family took several vacations; next year, they'll take one. This Christmas they plan to spend half what they spent last year.
They are worried. They see people like them, with 15 years at Chrysler, taking $100,000 buyouts rather than sticking it out. "With two Chrysler incomes, money was never an issue," Tina Durham says. But now, "People say, 'You have all your eggs in one basket!' "
So, she says, "We're hoarding our money." The whole family used to eat out five times a week; now, Tina and Mike go out once a week, alone. Tina buys generic brands and has cut back on sweets and snacks. In the past, the family took several vacations; next year, they'll take one. This Christmas they plan to spend half what they spent last year.
They feel that many Americans don't understand or appreciate the auto industry and its workers. "Congress gave money to the Wall Street bankers, so why not automobile factory workers?" Tina asks. She particularly resents criticism of Detroit's big cars: "I like my Durango. I feel safe, and I need room for the kids and their equipment."
Last edited by Gary-L; Dec 13, 2008 at 09:32 AM.
Grand Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,468
Likes: 0
From: 45th parallel, MI
All I have to say is when bush/white house steps in to get GM/Chrysler the money they need to continue on they better put some serious restraints/conditions with it. Because if they continue operating in the fashion they are right now it is going to be more of the same and the taxpayer is going to foot the bill for it.
Legend
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,843
Likes: 13
From: DFW, Texas
Auto unions are like my health insurance. You don't really need it, and when you try to make a claim, you get rejected. But you just keep on paying it for the fear of something really bad going wrong. Guess what? When that really bad thing happens, you're still going to be broke as a joke.
It truly is a pyramid scheme for those at the top. I'm really considering asking my doc what they'd charge if I'd drop insurance altogether and just start socking that money back for that "really bad day."
It truly is a pyramid scheme for those at the top. I'm really considering asking my doc what they'd charge if I'd drop insurance altogether and just start socking that money back for that "really bad day."
Legend
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,663
Likes: 8
From: Central Oklahoma
Auto unions are like my health insurance. You don't really need it, and when you try to make a claim, you get rejected. But you just keep on paying it for the fear of something really bad going wrong. Guess what? When that really bad thing happens, you're still going to be broke as a joke.
It truly is a pyramid scheme for those at the top. I'm really considering asking my doc what they'd charge if I'd drop insurance altogether and just start socking that money back for that "really bad day."
It truly is a pyramid scheme for those at the top. I'm really considering asking my doc what they'd charge if I'd drop insurance altogether and just start socking that money back for that "really bad day."
As for health insurance, if you're reasonably healthy, look into "catastrophic health insurance". It may be a better deal for you.