One thing worth noting, is that Chrysler is developing a new family of V-6 engines to replace all of the current ones in all vehicles (cars, trucks, vans). The engine family is called Phoenix and is expected to start debuting in model year 2010 and will be fully phased in by the year 2014 (they're adding the new engines to models as they redesign). Visit http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html for more info (though it is a bit limited at this point--I would check back frequently!).

Personally, I'm a Dakota owner with the standard 4.7 (non HO) and I'm pretty pleased, but I came from a GMC Canyon with their crappy I-5 engine that started to fall apart after 43,000 miles. Now there is an engine that needs replaced--stupid thing barely had enough power to pull my extended cab truck up a hill...I would lose speed on the hills, plus it needed thousands of dollars in work and I just decided to dump the truck for a Dakota and I've been very pleased in comparison.

 

well i agree with what was said about the 4.7 and 5.7 gas mileage. but i do think to stay up with competition they need to make the engines a little more reliable. my friends 06 chevy has a 4.8 gets 285 hp stock and still gets 20+ mpg. there is no reason why dodge couldnt come up with a way to make the 4.7 more economical. i agree that the 4.7 needs to be scrapped but there are some issues that need to be looked at first. one of them is, would it be possible, keeping design costs relatively low and keeping engine production cost about the same as it is now, to make the 4.7 more economincal? if they could make a 4.7 that in a full size truck puts out maybe 265 hp and gets 20+ mpg then id say keep it. it would give ppl that dont need the power of a hemi a truck with a v8 in it that still had plenty of power to pull whatever they needed (provided it isnt too heavy) has plenty of get up and go when you need to accelerate or when pulling out into heavy traffic and still gets good fuel economy. basically it would be a little more comparable to the 4.8. and another thing is most ppl who arent dodge fanatics and dont know alot about their products dont know that the hemi gets the same mpg as the 4.7. so lets say Joe Schmo from Kokomo was planning on buying a new full size truck, and wanted a v8, but didnt need a whole lot of power, and still wanted good gas mileage. he narrowed it down between ford and dodge but when he got to the dealer they only had hemis. so in his thinking (because in my experience this is pretty much the view of everyone ive talked to who doesnt know what theyre talking about) the hemi is just a big powerful gas guzzling engine that only gets 10 mpg (which is what i get in my 4.7 if i drive it easy). so he leaves without ever talking to salesman and goes and buys an f150. so before we scrap the 4.7 and go to having only hemis we need to get some advertising out there that hemis get relatively good gas mileage for a full size truck because when alot of ppl hear the word hemi they automatically think back to the 60s with big gas guzzling engines and that just isnt the case anymore.

as for making the dakota a full size truck, i dont think there is a need for a 2nd full size truck in dodges line up. the ram has been around forever and most ppl who are buying a full size truck will go with that anyways just on name and reputation although theyd be essentially the same truck on the same chassis with the same engien and just different options and looks. dakota sales would actually drop in my opinion. then on top of the costs for redisigning the dakota, they would have to design another mid size truck. i think the dakota is fine where its at. its bigger than other midsize trucks, i believe its the only midsize with a v8, and its not overwhelmingly huge. for alot of ppl this is the perfect combination. a bed to haul whatever they need, a v8 engine, enough room to seat a family of four (pretty cramped in the back even on quad cab models but it works), and its not so big that driving it on crowded city streets or manuevering around tiny parking lots isnt a hassle and you dont have to worry about parking spots being too small. when we went to go to the zoo for my sisters birthday last year we had to park several blocks away in order to find a spot big enough for my dads truck because it was crowded that day at the zoo and all the available parking spots said "compact only".

 

The problem that the Caliber has is the gearing is way too short to off-set the extra weight and arrow dynamics (or lack thereof) and its choice of automatic was a very poor choice. It was either MT or C&D that said the CVT2 should learn from the 62TE characteristics. The problem with the Caliber is it is a niche car and not an economy car. It is Dodge's attempt to create the PT Cruiser, when they need to make a car to replace the Neon. The Hornet is a very bad idea. That is another niche car that is attempting to compete against the Scion xB. They need to compete agains the Corolla, Civic, and Mazda 3, not against Scion. A Scion competitor would be something that Eagle (if they wouldn't have dropped them) should have competed against should have done, not Dodge.

Chevy needs to improve their compact as well because it takes them a manual to get 34 mpg in the Cobalt but some how they are able to get the same fuel mileage out of the Malibu automatic I4. Now what is embarrasing is how the Malibu 3.5L is able to get the same highway rating as the Caliber 1.8L manual. That is sad.
I agree that the 4.7L is losing its purpose. They need to either lose it or give it a serious power and fuel mileage upgrade. The 4.0L should definitely replace the low ouput version of the 4.7L in the Dakota. Even with the very short gearing it gets in the Nitro, it still manages to get better mileage than the 4.7L LO. If it is given the correct gearing, it can be very competitive.

There is a point to having the different versions of the world engine, they just aren't using them correctly is all. If they would make an actual Neon replacement, you would be able to see the purpose. The 1.8L would give the best economy but might feel a little weak. The 2.0L would offer enough power to satisfy most while having only a slight drop in fuel mileage. The 2.4L has a purpose with larger, heavier vehicles, and would make a nice competitor against the Mazda 3 equipped with the 2.3L.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you about the 3.3L and 3.8L should be dropped part. The 3.3L is better suited to the Caravan than the 2.7L. A heavier vehicle like the Caravan needs more tq than hp, not only that but it needs everything down low which the 2.7L doesn't have. Not only that but the 3.3L is a much smoother, quiter, and more refined engine than the 2.7L. The 2.7L might actually get lower fuel mileage than the 3.3L because they would have to give it shorter gearing that the 3.3L needs, that is what they had to do the Intrepid when they switched from the 3.3L to the 2.7L.

Although I love my 3.5L, it doesn't belong in the Caravan. In the Pacifica, it gets 2 mpg lower than the 3.8L and it isn't that much faster because the engine wasn't ment for the heavier vehicles. It would have to be retuned to make it work correctly and it would lose much of its advantages. The 4.0L is a better fit with the power curve characteristics.

I think they need to instead lose the 2.7L and 3.7L and give some tech upgrades to all of their V6 engines. Why should the World Engine line have Dual VVT when the V6 and V8s don't even offer a VVT system. I think the 3.8L has the potiental to get the same EPA ratings on the highway as the 2.7L for this reason. The 2.7L powered Magnum and 300 gets only 1 more mpg than the 3.5L version when equipped with either the 42RLE or W5A580. Meanwhile the 3.8L gets 2 mpg better fuel mileage than the 3.5L equipped Pacifica. The 3.8L produces 15-25 hp & 45-55 ft-lbs of tq and it is a smoother engine with a better track record than the 2.7L. The 3.8L should replace the 3.7L an engine that was never really needed (no offense to owners). In its full output version it can get around the same hp and 10-15 more ft-lbs of tq. I really don't see what the purpose of making the 3.7L was. On top of that, I don't see why they kept the 3.9L when the 3.8L outpoowed and out tqed the it either.

The 3.3L equipped Caravan is able to get the same fuel mileage as the 3.4L powered Venture was able to get. The GM 3.4L was able to get around 29-32 depending on gearing and what it was used in. The 3.3L should be able to do the same if it gets comparable gearing in a car.

Since GM has offered VVT in their 3.5L and 3.9L, why can't Chrysler offer the same tech to their 3.3L and 3.8L and receive a nice ~20 hp boost and more consistent power bands, as well as the potiential fuel mileage upgrade that can come with VVT. If the 3.5L received a VVT system addition it could compete nicely against the Toyota and Nissan 3.5L engines in power. If the 4.0L received a VVT upgrade it would be in V8 hp and tq territory while getting V6 fuel mileage.

What Chrysler also needs to do is they need to lose the 40/41TES and other 4-speed transmissions. They are outdated and are no longer competitive. They need to use only 5 & 6-speeds instead. If they would use the 62TE in the Sebring and Avenger, they could possibly be able to match the Camrys' and Accords' I4 models fuel economy ratings as well as acceleration times if not do better with their 2.4L. They should also adjust the gearing of the W5A580 and give it a more economical overdrive, say a .69-.67 instead of a barely existing noticeable .83. This could help the Charger and Magnum to get better fuel mileage and other modes.
I agree. Not only that but they should spend the money they are spending on incentives on improving their products so then they don't have to offer incentives. Toyota and Honda don't have to offer incentives on most of their vehicles and their sales are climbing. Always offering incentives can get people in the mind set that the car should only cost what they charge when incentives are offered. They need to make a change in perception to where people believe they are a superior product.



Chrysler being separated from DB would be a good thing but I'm not going to hold my breathe. When Chrysler merged, Plymouth wasn't needed because the difference between a Chrysler and Dodge and Plymouth was marginal in the models that the three shared. Now that Chrysler and Dodge are trying to change their perception, they need Plymouth to make a simple cheap car for the average Joe. If I was incharge of the company, this is how I would do things.

Plymouth- A new Breeze for the new Avenger and Sebring. Standard engine 2.0L with either manual or automatic. Only optional engine 3.3L VVT. Modern Neon with new name, only engines 1.8L and 2.0L with either manual or automatic. Large sedan called the Fury offering the 3.3L for the base level and a detuned version of the 5.7L. Cuda model is produced offering similar package without luxuries offer in the Challenger, and looking like the 70s model. Vorager is returned only offering 2.4L (WE), and 3.3L VVT. In Grand models the 3.3L VVT is the only choice. Caliber is offer in this division without the SRT-4 and no CVTs.

Eagle- Receives the PT Cruiser with the 62TE throughout the line, the 2.4 (WE) standard, turbo models optional. What is known as the Sebring would be given to Eagle with the only changes being that the 62TE is standard on all models and the 3.5L with VVT is on the ESi model is optional (replacing the Touring), and the 4.0L on the TSi is optional with the 2.4L standard(replacing the Limited), and a SRT-4 model. A 6-speed manual is available on all models. Large sedan with styling cues from the 1999 Charger concept (if possible), offering the 3.5L VVT standard, 4.0L with VVT on the ESi, a 5.7L TSi with VVT, and 6.1L SRT-8 with VVT. All models get a revised W5A580 with the gearing change I listed earlier. The Hornet is given to Eagle instead of Dodge. A line of car based SUVs are offered in this division. A cheaper versions of the Pacifica are sold in this division. The cheaper versions of the Town and Country are sold here with the 3.8L VVT standard, the 3.5L VVT, and 4.0L VVT optional.

Dodge- A new compact is offered coming standard with the 2.0L 6-speed auto or manual standard. 2.4L is optional in the SXT package same transmissions, a 2.0L turbo is offered as a R/T package, and SRT-4 package offers the 2.4L turbo with all wheel drive standard. Avenger receives the 62TE in all models as well as the 6-speed manual. The SXT offers the 3.8LVVT instead of the 2.7L. The ES badge is retuned to offer the 3.5L VVT. The R/T has a 4.0L VVT with a cold air intake. SRT-4 2.4L turbo with AWD. The Charger comes in either coupe or sedan versions. The engines are 3.5L VVT in SE, 4.0L VVT in SXT, 5.7L VVT in ES, 6.1L VVT in R/T, and 6.4L VVT in SRT-8. The Challenger offers the 3.5L VVT in SE, 4.0L VVT in SXT, 5.7L VVT in T/A, 6.1L VVT in R/T, and 6.4L VVT in SRT-8. The Dakota receives manual avaliable in all models. The 2.4L is added, the 3.8L VVT replaces the 3.7L, the 4.0L VVT replaces the 4.7L low-output, the 4.7L HO receives VVT, the Dakota receives both the 5.7L MDS with VVT, and the 6.1L VVT SRT-8 engine. All models either recieve the W5A580, or the 545RFE. The Ram replaces the 3.7L with the 3.8VVT, the 4.7L is replaced with the 4.7L HO with VVT, the 5.7L receives VVT, an HD model is offered with a work tuned 6.1L with VVT, the Ram offers a 6.4L with VVT for an SRT-8 model. The Viper receives VVT as well as a huge power upgrade. The Caravan loses the 2.4L and comes standard with the 3.3L. The Grand models come standard with the 3.8L VVT, 3.5L VVT is optional, and the 4.0L is the top model.

Chrysler- The Sebring loses the 2.4L and 2.7L. The standard model comes with premium leather and the dash receives more expensive, softer materials. The base engine is the 3.5L with VVT, the 4.0L is offered in the Touring model, and the top model offers the SRT-4 engine, all models have the 62TE. The 300C becomes the base level, all levels come with premium leather or better. The 5.7L with VVT is standard, the 6.1L with VVT is on the Touring model and Limited model, and the 6.4L VVT is offer on the SRT-8 model. A manual is available only on the SRT-8 models. The Chrysler Town and Country comes standard with premium leather and the 4.0L. The Pacifica comes standard with the 4.0L.

 

Chrysler definitely not for sale... maybe...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...610260369/1148

 

Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee. Not only does buying domestics keep the big three working, but there are hundreds of thousands that work for stateside suppliers that depend on the big three.


BUY AMERICAN I do always and as for some people with money and there still some of us here left in this country i dont care about gas milage V8 HEMI all the way

 

What do you expect? They're a buch of blockheads..