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never said it was crap... just FUGLY !!! what it this crap about the caliber owning the srt4 . trade your sxt in get and srt-4 then let me know if it does or not.

 

It isnt any FUGLIER than the Charger or Magnum. Those are the 2 ugliest cars I've ever seen.

 

Most would agree. the Neon and Neon SRT-4 have better looks than the Caliber and Caliber SRT-4... The Caliber is a better built car and has more features. But when it comes to looks the Neon takes it...

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some don't like the 06 PT's refresh, and some don't like the 300, Magnum, Chargers but some do. It's like the LH guys complaining about them getting rid of cab-forward styling. It's dead, the next gen Mini-vans will put that nail in the coffin.. Chrysler has always taken design risks and the Caliber is one of them. It's about time though that they get some more modern technology in their small cars, the Neon sure didn't cut it, and the reputation that it got was horrible. I'm happy with our 04, it's a pretty solid little car, compared to our 99.

As far as the Charger not selling, I've seen plenty around here....

 

I agree with you on the Chargers. Where I am I am very close to the GM and Ford World HQ's, and Chrysler is a half hour expressway drive away. I see a lot of everything, but those Chargers show up almost everytime I go out.

I really dont know why anybody would want a four-door car that gets 17 MPG (SRT version), I would rather have an Explorer or Durango which gets close to that in City and is actually useful.

Anyway, thats not the point. The Caliber got me to buy a Dodge, the Neon never would have. My dad may now be trading in his Stratus for a Caliber because he loves the way they look and drive, and he would not be caught dead in a Neon.

So there you have it, its already bringing new business into a dead market for Chrysler, and thats all that matters.

 

Exactly, the 2nd gen caught the bad rap from the 1st...


If you are buying a 425 hp performance sedan. You're not worrying about gas milage. An explorer will get raped by the SRT Charger and the Durango will ofcourse get burned too. I don't quite understand your comparison. It's apples and oranges. Useful? Large sedan, plenty of room, truck space, fast... Seems useful to me...

The Charger sales suffer because of it's two LX cousins... Magnum and 300C. The Charger is a great car, has won numerous awards, including AAA's best car for families. Just suffers because big cousin 300C is a little bit better....

LX PLATFORM (Example Year to Date Dec 04-Dec 05)
CHRYSLER 300........ Dec 05 - 12,202 …YTD - 144,068
DODGE CHARGER... Dec 05 - 7,137 …YTD - 44,804
DOGE MAGNUM....... Dec 05 - 2,901 …YTD - 52,487
TOTAL................... Dec 05 - 22,140 …YTD - 241,359


Um, the small car market was not dead for Chrysler. The Neon was one of our top sellers. Only in the last year have the Neon sales been low. I don't know where you are getting your information.


Seems we only have Caliber lovers/Neon haters and Neon lovers/Caliber haters... There is no in between... Besides me and a few others... I just wish some people would check the facts first, no offense meant.

 

I still stand by what I say about the Charger and comparison to the Explorer. I dont know where you get your information, but a Charger does not have 4-wheel drive, does not have near the towing capacity, does not seat people as comfortably, does not have the size cargo room the Explorer or Durango has, does not have even half the capability of either.

As far as buying a 425 HP car and not worrying about gas mileage, that gets to my other problem with people. They buy these cars and for no real purpose. So you have a car that can get to the speed limit faster than mine, so WHAT. I can get in trouble with my car just as fast as you. The whole idea behind it is completely stupid. And this is coming from someone who grew up around drag racing. My dad had a 9 second car and I had a jr. dragster and then raced street legal cars in the street class for awhile. In drag racing speed isnt even that important unless its heads-up racing, but you dont go to a race track and race a car like a charger, or even my dads car, in heads-up racing, its 99% of the time bracket racing, which is all about consistancy and reaction times.

So sorry, but I have to counter you, I see the Charger as a completely useless vehicle in its SRT form, if you disagree, give me a good reason why it isnt that I have not already disputed. If I can get an Escape, and get 22 MPG and move people around town while being able to tow, have 4-wheel drive, better gas mileage, a cheaper vehicle, and more cargo room, but I risk losing a race against a Charger which will probably never happen, I would take the Escape.

Now if you got the Charger as a second vehicle to your truck or your more fuel efficient vehicle, thats fine, but I know a few people with these Chargers and its there primary daily driver, and the stupidity there is stacked pretty high in my book.

I dont knock the base charger or anything, its a nice car, but the SRT I think is useless. My dad's 9-second 69' Fairlane cost less than $25,000 to build, and we raced it for years. If you want a race car get a real one, or if you get an SRT Charger, dont make it your main vehicle and have it to drive when you want to get out, or to take to the track for street racing.



Now your other point about the small car market. When I say dead, I mean that the Neon was no competition for Honda or Toyota, especially as you said yourself in the recent past. I dont know the numbers, but I am willing to bet Ford was selling more Foci' as well. That is pretty much dead as far as I am concerned, especially if incentives that pushed the car to a very low profit margin is what earned its numbers.

I am not Neon hater, and you know what, if I could have afforded some of the vehicles I really wanted, I never would have bought a Caliber. So I am about as neutral as you get. I am just more based in reality when it comes to cars because I have been involved with almost every variation of vehicles you can find. From show cars, to race cars, to off-roaders, I have tried them all and I see now that a vehicle should be judged by its ability. A car should be fast while getting good gas mileage, a truck should be tough with a lot of torque and towing ability, or you can have the off-roading trucks which need a bit of what I mentioned but a different outfit in other areas. You have your family cars, vans, etc, they all have certain jobs they are made to do well.

If a car does one of its jobs really well but totally neglects the other, that is not a worthwhile car in my view, unless you get it for a purpose that makes it the best suited, such as Drag Racing.

So dont knock me or my information without stepping back and trying to consider the bigger picture.

 

Also, I dont want a battle between me and you or anyone else, but I do think that people get so blinded by some things without actually seeing the truth. A bigger engine and a faster car does not make it a better car.

Now that does not mean my views are true for everyone, but the car market shows that I am not far off base. What is the top selling car? Its a Toyota isnt it?

Do you know why?

Well outside of all the stupid people that dont read up and think Toyota's have some magic reliability far beyond domestics...

There is the fact that they get awesome gas mileage, have a great ride, great performance, and a lot of options across a large price range. It isnt because they have a 425 HP engine.

That is what I am trying to say. If Chrysler and Ford and GM want to really compete with Imports, they need more Caliber like vehicles. Start it out at a cheap as hell price, and then give people the options they want to make it theirs. Give them some reliability and good gas mileage, even performance if thats their thing. Give them AWD and give them some stupid removable flashlight in the back.

Give the people the options and make the vehicle good regardless of what they choose. Just because I got the R/T version of the Caliber does not mean I lost a huge number in MPG, I am getting 24.8 in the city. I did not lose any functionality in the car, in fact I gained some. That is a good vehicle.

The Charger SRT is not this.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder only so far as the beholder can tolerate defect. Beauty is a quantifiable and measurable set of elements that forms an object to where it is not only pleasing but also a visual manifestation of potential power and truth.

On the other hand, style, taste and personal preference are in the eye of the beholder. Those aspects are subject to the host and the many personal and environmental conditions and experiences of life.

If one has the skills, talent and inspiration they can build/design something beautiful... and it will be beautiful regardless of what anyone or everyone says about it.

Regarding the Caliber it has much about it that is beautiful. It is a finely designed product. The only thing about it that seems like it wasn't dealt with properly is the top-back corner and the C-pillars. Something seems amiss there. But I can tolerate that for the rest of the car is great looking (BTW I also like the design of the SRT4 Neons... that's a beautiful car too. Too bad reliability didn't match the looks).

If this Caliber is reliable and performs well then the looks will be validated and the car will be a grand slam... hence, "beauty is truth".