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97 GC 3.8L Radiator Fans not working

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Old Feb 6, 2011 | 01:27 PM
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Question 97 GC 3.8L Radiator Fans not working

Radiator fans not working. I have replaced fan relay and connector.
I can get fans to come on full if I disconnect temp sensor. If I plug back in the fans will cycle to lower speed and then shut off. This is with AC on which previously forced the fans on at all times and is at operating temp. All of this came after I replaced AC compressor. The compressor had seized but I don't think they are related but who knows?

2 years ago I replaced radiator after it over heated and cracked. I replaced temp sensor and relay at that time and all was well again. Going back over my old notes I replaced relay last and then fans worked again. I thought this would be the fix this time but no good.

I am thinking that the ECC computer may be bad. I thought I saw some posts somewhere about software updates for this problem but I am thinking that I need a rebuilt unit considering the vehicle age.

To review: Fans can be forced to work, relay is new and I have the 2 used ones I tried, temp sensor was replaced in 2009 and the gauge on dash does read temp. I may try another sensor but my feeling is the computer is bad.
 
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Old Feb 6, 2011 | 02:34 PM
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Welcome to DF
Does the fans come on when the engine reaches 210 deg? There was a software update for the fan relay, which i believe was a recall.Or the A/C transducer is bad.
 
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Old Feb 6, 2011 | 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by master tech
Welcome to DF
Does the fans come on when the engine reaches 210 deg? There was a software update for the fan relay, which i believe was a recall.Or the A/C transducer is bad.
no fans at all and it eventually overheats - temp gauge won't read over 1/2 way even though its in over heat condition. I am testing the wiring harness to check condition. I do have 5v signal at sensor and ground looks good bad to harness disconnect. I back test the 5v and I got it down to 2.0V which is supposed to be 220 deg. The AC compressor engages so I believe the transducer is good. I get no fans at 220 deg with no AC selected.

I got this from another thread:
" The PCM provides a 5v reference signal to the sensor. On a cold engine the resistance of the sensor is very high, so you get no voltage flow to ground. As the coolant warms, resistance decreases and more voltage flows to ground--but only IF the ground is in good condition. If it's corroded, the voltage will remain high.

You got a P0118 code. In order to set that, the PCM has to see 4.9 volts on the sensor input for more than 3 seconds. But it doesn't do this in a vacuum. It's also looking at throttle position, intake air temp, trans fluid temp, etc. In other words, the PCM knew the engine was warmed up when it saw high voltge. So, you either have a bad connection between the black wire at the sensor connector and the connector at the PCM. Or you have an open in the reference signal wire. Since you have temp gauge operation on the dash, you can rule out an open in the signal wire. But you cannot rule out a bad connection to ground.

Pulling the connector only confirms that the relay is working. You basically put the PCM into a default emergency state. It saw extremely high voltage--assumed that the sensor had failed or the ground wire had broken, and opted to be on the safe side and turn on the fans to prevent overheating. It doesn't tell us exactly how accurate the sensor is or what condition the wiring is.

You need to read the voltage on the reference wire under running conditions and compare the readings to the ACTUAL coolant temperature.

Here are some values: At a coolant temp of:
120°, voltage should be 4v
140°, voltage should be 3.6v
160°, voltage should be 3.20 v
180°, voltage should be 2.8v
210°, voltage should be 2.2v
220°, voltage should be 2.0v

If you see where I am heading here, you'll see that the difference between an engine that has JUST reached operating temp (180-190) and one that is overheating is only .8 of a volt.
I doubt that you can detect that difference in the needle on your dash. That's why I've been suggesting that you doing an actual voltage test instead of making an assumption that the sensor is good simply because the resistance changes. (An ohm test is NOT considered a reliable test--well, not as reliable as a voltage test, since voltage is what the PCM reads, not ohms.)

If you do see 2 volts and the coolant temp IS 220, the PCM should provide GROUND (not power) to the fan relay.

You're making a lot of assumptions about the condition of your wiring and I'm afraid you're heading right for a new PCM without doing some more advanced electrical testing. Just trying to save you some money here. It still may be a bad PCM, but I'd sure want to see some voltage readings to confirm that first.
 

Last edited by paradiddle; Feb 6, 2011 at 04:54 PM.
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Old Feb 14, 2011 | 06:52 PM
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Default fixed - sort of

I replaced the PCM with a rebuilt unit. fans now come on when volts get to 1.96 on my meter and that's about 225 deg on my infrared. They kick off at 2.20 volts about 200 deg. This is with AC off. Funny thing is that all 2 previous "bad" fan relays now work.

Can anyone tell me if the AC is engaged does it force the fans on?
 
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Old Feb 14, 2011 | 06:58 PM
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The fans come on when condenser pressure gets to around 250 - 300 psi. I'm not sure what the exact number is.
 
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Old Feb 14, 2011 | 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tizzy1
The fans come on when condenser pressure gets to around 250 - 300 psi. I'm not sure what the exact number is.
Ok, thanks. I can track that. I just did compressor change after it locked up.

I see you responded to similar questions on this forum. From what I gather the PCM is tracking many conditions: AC pressure, ambient temp, trans temp, coolant temp etc.

I have been looking through the online Mopar parts guys and I can't find the AC transducer being available. I don't know if I need it. I do get AC fan clutch working ok but now I can track the ac pressure for fan operation.

While I am in the AC area, can the valve cores be replaced and where do I get some. The hi side doesn't look like a standard valve core.
 

Last edited by paradiddle; Feb 14, 2011 at 09:14 PM.
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Old Feb 15, 2011 | 11:12 AM
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The high side pressure transducer is replaceable, have done many. The factory part has changed designs so you also need to replace the connector when replacing the transducer.

The high side charge port is replaced as an assembly but can be done without replacing the entire line.
 
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Old Feb 15, 2011 | 12:22 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by Tizzy1
The high side pressure transducer is replaceable, have done many. The factory part has changed designs so you also need to replace the connector when replacing the transducer.

The high side charge port is replaced as an assembly but can be done without replacing the entire line.
I do have a leak in the high side port and need to replace that.

Does the port just unscrew off the bung and where do I get a replacement?
 
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Old Feb 15, 2011 | 01:35 PM
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Dealer, pn 5003463AA, $9.85
 
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Old Feb 16, 2011 | 11:22 PM
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got it...... i may also get a transducer 5019881AB but from an online source - they is expensive !!! dealer wants $140, I know retail is really $114 and online for about $81.

I saw a question in reference to the transducer and the fact that the fans should come on for condenser cooling and not just over-pressure condition. I would guess that 250-275 at 90 deg. with rear AC would be the range for that. I am sure the ambient temp affects that also.
 
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