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Old Nov 6, 2011 | 12:31 PM
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Exclamation Off to a bad start

I was gifted a 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan SE 3.3 gas by my daughter.
My son-in-law had replaced the brake system master cylinder and the pedal does a lot of travel. Knowing him, I suspect that the system was not properly bled. Haynes reads that if this is an ABS the bleeding must be done by a repair shop with a DRB II scan tool.

When he replaced the master cylinder, he did not service the EGR valve which was causing the Service Engine Soon light to be on. He had clearly not even tried to find out where it is located. Haynes does a very confusing job of conveying to a DIY, like myself, how to proceed. Other sources oversimplify.

It appears that the air filter had not been serviced for some time. The bolts holding down the REMOVE TO SERVICE AIR FILTER were so rusted that a socket had to be hammered on to allow use of a breaker bar, after BLASTER had been applied.

After I removed the REMOVE TO SERVICE AIR FILTER, it took me some time to shake the misdirections on the internet and in Haynes. I finally found the air filter container with a nut shell inside. The element was only a little grayed but I think replacing it will help.

While removing the REMOVE TO SERVICE AIR FILTER the breather hose broke a the manifold connection.

When accelerating, I hear a "service muffler soon" warning.

Add to that - DMV gave me until today to get the vehicle inspected. I am a newbie to Dodge and would like some encouragement.
 
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Old Nov 6, 2011 | 09:50 PM
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Welcome to DF
The base brakes may have been bleed, and yes you need the DRB3 to bleed the ABS. The muffler sound maybe either a plugged exhaust system or the muffler is rusted out.
 
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Old Nov 7, 2011 | 05:42 AM
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Question Drb

Is DRB3 ($7,258.80) an advanced version of DRB II or did Haynes misprint.

I now suspect that my son-in-law did not properly bench bleed the master cylinder before installing it. I am certain that he did not properly bleed the system. He simply took it to Monroe for a Brake Fluid Flush and I noted that the work warranty statement on the bill was not signed.

I suspect he bargain hunted and the service performed was criminally inadequate. Not only does the pedal nearly floor (if not reach floor) but the master cylinder fill cap drips after a drive. I dare not take it off because it is filled to the cap. I cannot imagine any competant mechanic having left it so.
 
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Old Nov 7, 2011 | 05:11 PM
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DRB III is the latest version of the DRB.

MASTER CYLINDER BLEEDING

CAUTION: When clamping master cylinder in vise, only clamp master cylinder by its mounting flange, do not clamp on primary piston, seal\boot or body of master cylinder.
  1. Clamp the master cylinder in a vise using only the mounting flange (Master Cylinder Mounted In Vise) NOTE: Two different size bleeding tubes are used depending on which type of master cylinder the vehicle is equipped with. Vehicles equipped with traction control use a center port master cylinder with a 6 millimeter diameter brake tube. Vehicles not equipped with traction control use a compensating port master cylinder using a standard 3/16 inch diameter brake tube. Be sure the correct size bleeding tubes are used when bleeding the master cylinder.
  2. Install the Bleeding Tubes, Special Tool 6920, for a non-traction control master cylinder or Special Tool 8129 for a traction control master cylinder on the master cylinder (Bleeding Tubes Installed On Master Cylinder) Position bleeding tubes so the outlets of bleeding tubes will be below surface of brake fluid when reservoir is filled to its proper level
  3. Fill brake fluid reservoir with brake fluid conforming to DOT 3 specifications such as Mopar or an Equivalent.
  4. Using a wooden dowel, depress push rod slowly, and then allow pistons to return to released position. Repeat several times until all air bubbles are expelled from master cylinder.
  5. Remove bleeding tubes from master cylinder outlet ports, and then plug outlet ports and install fill cap on reservoir.
  6. Remove master cylinder from vise.
  7. Install the filler cap from the master cylinder filler neck, on the master cylinder fluid reservoir.
  8. Install the master cylinder assembly on the power brake vacuum booster NOTE: Note: It is not necessary to bleed the ABS hydraulic control unit (HCU) after replacing the master cylinder. But, the base brake hydraulic system must be bled to ensure no air is entered the hydraulic system when the master cylinder was removed.


 
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Old Nov 7, 2011 | 05:14 PM
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ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEM BLEEDING

The base brake's hydraulic system must be bled anytime air enters the hydraulic system. The ABS though, particularly the ICU (HCU), should only be bled when the HCU is replaced or removed from the vehicle. The ABS must always be bled anytime it is suspected that the HCU has ingested air. Under most circumstances that require the bleeding of the brakes hydraulic system, only the base brake hydraulic system needs to be bled.
It is important to note that excessive air in the brake system will cause a soft or spongy feeling brake pedal.
During the brake bleeding procedure, be sure the brake fluid level remains close to the FULL level in the master cylinder fluid reservoir. Check the fluid level periodically during the bleeding procedure and add DOT 3 brake fluid as required.
The ABS must be bled as two independent braking systems. The non-ABS portion of the brake system with ABS is to be bled the same as any non-ABS system.
The ABS portion of the brake system must be bled separately. Use the following procedure to properly bleed the brake hydraulic system including the ABS.
BLEEDING

When bleeding the ABS system, the following bleeding sequence must be followed to insure complete and adequate bleeding. The ABS system can be bled using a manual bleeding procedure or standard pressure bleeding equipment.
If the brake system is to be bled using pressurized bleeding equipment, refer to SERVICE PROCEDURES in the BASE BRAKE SYSTEM section at the beginning of this group for proper equipment usage and procedures.
  1. Make sure all hydraulic fluid lines are installed and properly torqued.
  2. Connect the DRB scan tool to the diagnostics connector. The diagnostic connector is located under the lower steering column cover to the left of the steering column.
  3. Using the DRB, check to make sure the CAB does not have any fault codes stored. If it does, clear them using the DRB WARNING: WHEN BLEEDING THE BRAKE SYSTEM WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. A CLEAR BLEED TUBE MUST BE ATTACHED TO THE BLEEDER SCREWS AND SUBMERGED IN A CLEAR CONTAINER FILLED PART WAY WITH CLEAN BRAKE FLUID. DIRECT THE FLOW OF BRAKE FLUID AWAY FROM YOURSELF AND THE PAINTED SURFACES OF THE VEHICLE. BRAKE FLUID AT HIGH PRESSURE MAY COME OUT OF THE BLEEDER SCREWS WHEN OPENED.
  4. Bleed the base brake system using the standard pressure or manual bleeding procedure as outlined in SERVICE PROCEDURES in the BASE BRAKE SYSTEM section at the beginning of this group.
  5. Using the DRB, select ANTILOCK BRAKES, followed by MISCELLANEOUS, then BLEED BRAKES. Follow the instructions displayed. When the scan tool displays TEST COMPLETED, disconnect the scan tool and proceed.
  6. Bleed the base brake system a second time. Check brake fluid level in the reservoir periodically to prevent emptying, causing air to enter the hydraulic system.
  7. Fill the master cylinder reservoir to the full level.
  8. Test drive the vehicle to be sure the brakes are operating correctly and that the brake pedal does not feel spongy.
 
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Old Nov 7, 2011 | 05:15 PM
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BASE BRAKE BLEEDING


BLEEDING WITHOUT A PRESSURE BLEEDER

NOTE: Correct manual bleeding of the brakes hydraulic system will require the aid of a helper.
NOTE: To adequately bleed the brakes using the manual bleeding procedure the rear brakes must be correctly adjusted. Prior to the manual bleeding of the brake hydraulic system, correctly adjust the rear brakes.
NOTE: The following wheel sequence should be used when bleeding the brake hydraulic system. The use of this wheel sequence will ensure adequate removal of all trapped air from the brake hydraulic system.
  • Left Rear Wheel
  • Right Front Wheel
  • Right Rear Wheel
  • Left Front Wheel
  1. Pump the brake pedal three or four times and hold it down before the bleeder screw is opened.
  2. Push the brake pedal toward the floor and hold it down. Then open the left rear bleeder screw at least 1 full turn. When the bleeder screw opens the brake pedal will drop all the way to the floor.
  3. Release the brake pedal only after the bleeder screw is closed.
  4. Repeat steps 1 through 3, four or five times, at each bleeder screw in the required sequence. This should pass a sufficient amount of fluid to expel all the trapped air from the brake system. Be sure to monitor the fluid level in the master cylinder, so it stays at a proper level so air will not enter the brake system through the master cylinder.
  5. Perform a final adjustment of the rear brake shoes and then test drive vehicle to be sure brakes are operating correctly and that pedal is solid.
 
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Old Nov 7, 2011 | 07:02 PM
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Exclamation Brake Pedal Travel Update

I had not previously noticed but once the engine is started, the brake pedal no longer floors.
However, it still goes so low that when I shift my foot to the accelerator, the van gets off to an overly fast start.
This is being caused by the difference in height between the gas pedal and the brake pedal when it is held down to keep the van stationary. Thanks for the instructions. In the pictures I had seen the master cylinder was in the vise differently. I would have not clamped it properly.
 
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