I called the guy back and told him everything. I thought about it some more, and I can't justify paying $16k for a 2011 van with 63,000 miles.

And I agree-that's ALOT of miles in 2 years.

Now, is the SE and AVP two different trim lines? Or is "SE" the lowest one? I thought AVP and SE were different trims.

I told him we saw GCs for $19k with everything we wanted (stow n go, dual heat controls, power windows, 2nd row buckets, etc) These ones just said "SE/AVP" so I'm a little confused about that.

 

You need to save dealer visits for the last step AFTER you educate yourself. Unarmed buyers get ripped off. Dealers might be intentionally misleading you hoping to get you into an AVP for full MSRP. If they want $19K for an AVP then that's full MSRP ($0 off sticker) with the $1K incentive rebate (yuck)!!! However this assumes a vehicle a few months old with the 16" wheels. I think 5 minutes of searching on google should answer all your questions. It's clear you have not yet visited Edmundsdotcom and KBBdotcom to review the individual models and option packages with their dealer cost (invoice) and mfr retail list prices separately listed?? These websites answer all the questions you pose. Simply take the cost numbers off that website and subtract the rebates in effect today.

For 2013, the standard 2nd row stow and go seating was deleted in order to get the MSRP base price down to $19,995. This model is called the AVP and the 2nd row is a bench. However you can still get 2nd row stow and go on the AVP as an option.

For 2013, there are four distinct models of Grand Caravan from strippo to premium model, namely AVP, SE, SXT and R/T. The SE starts at $23K, but rebate incentive is $2K and dealer markdown discount should exceed $1K according to kbb. This puts the latest and greatest SE with standard 17" wheels and oversize brakes at $20K even. The AVP only has a smaller $1K rebate incentive, but with $20K MSRP minus incentive minus $1K dealer markdown should put them around $18K. Price varies by month manufactured so window stickers will not be consistent even with same options.

All SE GC's have a big "SE" badge glued on the rear tailgate. GC's that have no badge on the tailgate are strippo AVP's that somebody is trying to pawn off as an SE. If the exterior door handles are flat black instead of exterior paint color, then it's an AVP.

2013 DODGE GRAND CARAVAN SE features (over AVP model):
The Dodge Grand Caravan SE adds such features as standard second-row Super Stow ‘n Go seating, three-zone climate control, floor console with cup holders, deep tint sunscreen glass, and body color exterior handles, side moldings and sill appliques to the already well-equipped minivan. Base pricing for this model is under $23K. New for 2013 is the addition of available 17-inch alloy wheels and tires for $1,400 less than in 2012.

PS: I highlighted the two items in red above that allow you to quickly distinguish an SE from an AVP by simply looking at an exterior pic showing door handle (flat black on AVP) or interior pic showing dash climate control (more *****).

Try this link, but there are tons or others better describing the option packages.

http://www.autospectator.com/cars/mo...hotos-features

http://www.dodgecurrentoffers.com/gr...nel=paidsearch

Lastly, I believe the latest msrp numbers are for 17" wheels and tires. The 16's are in the process of being discontinued, so you should get a better price on older vans in stock with the 16" setup.

 

We have a 98 GC. Bought it about 7 years ago with 57k miles on it, now it has 168k. Transmission failed at 110k and was rebuilt. Has had "intermittent electrical abnormalities" (i.e. tuns signals or wipers or dash lights won't work. Stop and restart fixes it. Has happened twice). It has never left us stranded - even when the tranny went out (limp mode). Still gets 24 on the hwy. We used it for a flower business for a few years and have camped in it several time (fits a double air mattress perfectly). Versatile and comfortable. Hoping to get 250-300k out of it.

 

I looked for about 6 months before I bought my 2013 SXT. Started out thinking I'd get an 05-07 with stow & go, but any with low mileage were ridiculously priced. Gradually I worked my way up to a later model. I looked at a new AVP, but I really wanted the stow & go, which it didn't have. I really liked the equipment on the SXT, but I didn't want to pay the price for a brand new one.

As a consequence, I started cruising cars.com, autotrader, car gurus, etc. By widening my search area, I found several (over the 6 month period) used SXT's with very low mileage. To make a long story short, I wound up buying a 2013 SXT that had less than 500 miles on it for an even $21K. An old couple had bought it and decided it was too large, so they traded it back in for a Journey. I had to fly from MO to MN to get it, but that only added $300 to the cost.

My advice is to hang on and keep looking, unless your present ride is in such poor condition you have to move fast. I also think you'll be much happier with an SXT than an SE or AVP. The SXT has power second row windows, power doors and tailgate, power rear quarter windows, alloy wheels, stow & go on both rear rows, more speakers, and probably some other features I don't remember; the AVP has none of those. The SE seems to be the hardest to figure out as far as equipment. My local dealer talked as if it could be optioned up to nearly the level of an SXT, but of course by the time you did that, the price went up to nearly the price of an SXT.

 

Part of my problem is that this dealership we're going to is a Toyota and a Dodge dealer side by side, but owned by the same parent company. So the guy helping us typically works on the Toyota side, but insists he has access to everything.

It's obvious he doesn't know anything about the GC, I actually had to tell him the different trim levels, and he said "Oh,..really".

I've been looking at pricing and I checked out KBB which lists the "Fair Price" for an SE at $23k. I checked out several local dealers online, including the one I've been too and there pretty much the same-$21k.

I have NOT seen anything lower (around here at least) than $21k.

Thanks 04 Quadcab, I'll have to check out the SXT. I'd love to have all those features, but there a couple of things I'm worried about: 1) everybody who has power sliders always says that they broke at one point or another, and 2) I'm on a tight budget and don't really want to go any higher in price.

 

Sliding power doors aren't all broken. Over 15 years, about 30 folks have posted about troubles on the 3 major forums and there are two youtube videos about it. This is the #1 minivan in the world with well over 100K forum member owners on line. The failure rate statistics are probably a fraction of 1%. I have two GC's totalling over 300K mi, neither with power door issue.

The SE's do cost more than I thought because dishonest folks are advertizing AVP's as SE's.

Perhaps do some soul searching on whether to pay the going price for new with appropriate options or buy used. I personally like my fully loaded '08 SXT that cost me under $10K. The rear power door windows and doors are a nice upgrade and so is the nifty storage and cash cab interior lighting. The 3.8 has tons of torque for passing, loads and hills plus it provides acceptable economy (never under 20 MPG city and up to 24 MPG highway). The main drawback is no warranty.

When buying used, you need to know value, options and be aggressively searching. The good deals are scooped up in a couple days, so you must act fast and be willing to travel a couple hundred miles for the right vehicle, as 04Quadcab did . Autotrader's saved search feature is your friend & can't be beat.

 

I read all those negative posts before buying my latest. Keep in mind that people are inclined to report bad stuff. They do not write about how they have been trouble free for the past 12, 24, or 36 months. Bad reviews can also be influenced by a lousy dealer experience.

I bought a 2012 GC crew last August. This is my 4th Dodge/Chrysler mini-van and only really annoying problem with any of them was brake pad replacement on the '95. Otherwise they've been great.

2012 has been problem free. Comfortable ride; smooth shifting (BTW: software update has improved eco shifting and bumped up mileage); quiet, handles well, predictable, 3.6L engine is quick despite the weight. Gas mileage is a little disappointing in all city driving but highway driving is remarkable - last 300 trip on PA TP got 27+mpg @ 65-70.

Family/friends own late model Honda and Toyota vans. $5,000+ more for fundamentally the same vehicle. I don't need leather seats and the "auto" setting on the HVAC has been quick to heat and cool the.

Good luck. Check out the dealer. Take test drives at multiple dealers. Check inventories. Check prices. Negotiate!

 

While I agree with you about the excellent fuel efficiency for a powerful engine, and the great deal you get on the Grand Caravan. They are not the same vehicle. Toyota and Honda are charging more for quality vehicles. The reputation was earned over years of providing reliable vehicles. The quality of Chrysler vehicles is improving, but no where close to Toyota.

I also could not bring myself to spend $7500 more for a van made by the competition.

 

I would agree with you if this was 5-7 years ago. But nowadays, I have to disagree, knowing several people including family members who own new Toyotas, (including myself) they are not what they "used to be".

Toyota cashed in on there name. They know people will still buy them and pay the same price because of the so called "Toyota Quality", however that quality is no longer there anymore.

I'm not saying there a bad company. just saying that nowadays they're no better than American made cars.

 

shad,

I am driving my new 2013 DG with an engine light on. I got the code scanned, and it doesn't look good. We will see if Chrysler will stand behind their warranty. The kind of issues I am talking about is not the seat is not comfortable kind of issue, the Navigation system is inaccurate, or the paint is not up to my standard. You might deal with serious quality issues (engine, transmission,..).

You could also be lucky, and not have any issues. People on this forum are being honest, and telling you what you should expect based on their experience.