Get ready for another engine change, Starting in the 2014 model jeeps. We will see a 3.0 diesel, 3.0 gas engine and a 3.2 pentastar engines. I don't know yet if the minivans are going to get these same engines.

 

From a financial standpoint, for people who trade their vehicles every 5 years, it makes more sense to purchase a Grand Caravan or T&C. You can save $7,000-$15,000. Once you add $$$ saved for paying a lower tax amount, and for paying less interest on the loan, you can see that they are a great deal.

The money saved should be enough to cover for any unexpected repairs or to fund your retirement accounts. Buying a new vehicle has never been a wise investment regardless of what brand you purchase.

Now if you want a reliable vehicle with less trips to the dealership to fix any issue, GC / T&C may not be the right vehicle for you.

 

I am on my third GC and I love the car but you have to accept that it will be problematic over the time you own it...my newest is a 2011, loaded....my wife and I are retired and we love to travel. Seen and tried out all the other mini vans out there and discovered years ago that none of them are nearly as comfortable on a long trip than the GC...HOWEVER, you do need to accept the fact that you will be returing the car to the dealer several times a year for various problems - This is the one car that I always purchase a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty for and I factor that into the cost of owning the vehicle....My latest problem was just this week when while on a trip down south the check engine light came on...when I arrived back home I took it to the dealer and long story short, I have to have major engine work...it appears my car was one of the 1% whose engine head was defective and had to be replaced....We have 2 other vehicles, a Ford and small rag-top but the GC is clearly the car of choice for a long trip....It all comes down to a judgement you should make when looking for a new vehicle as to whether or not you want to take the good with the bad...My vehicle goes in for some sort of repairs about every 3 months.............

 

Well, apparently my wife is set on a brand new GC. She even made an appointment at a dealership for tomorrow. The salesman says he can get the payment to $300/month. I already told her it's not wise to talk monthly payment, talk about the price of the car.

Anyways, I have a few questions about the 2013...We'd probably go for the "AVP", since it's the cheapest. What are the differences between that and the SE? I noticed the AVP does not have 2nd row buckets, therefore no stow n go. Is this just a matter of paying for bucket seats and the dealership installing them? Or do you have to get an SE and above for stow n go/bucket seats?

However, the 3rd row in all the vans is stowable, is that correct?

Does the AVP have heat/ac controls in the rear? I don't care about ALL the electrical jazz, but one of the main reasons for wanting a GC is the stow n go, dual-ac/heat, bucket seats so the other kids can climb into the 3rd row/etc.

I also noticed the AVP and the SE do not have the center floor console w/ the cup holders up front. I thought that stuff was standard across the board, and the AVP just had different wheels and no electronics, but now I'm wondering what else is missing.

Not that cup holders are a deal breaker, just thought it was kind of strange.

 

I don't know about the 2013 AVP but my 2008 SE has the bench 2nd row. I've looked into swapping it out for buckets in the past, and found that my van has all the same floor attach points and seat belt attach points that Stow N Go vans have. However, if I recall correctly, the moulding for the seat stowage bins is very slightly different for Stow N Go vans, I think because of a groove in the moulding for the seats to slide into the bins.

I suppose if the price is right you could pay the dealer extra for the buckets. If you are at all mechanically inclined it might be a better/cheaper idea to search a junkyard. It can't be that hard to change out that moulding and the seats are easy to install by design. We gave up on the swap idea mainly because of the cost and because we got used to storing emergency supplies and tools in those stowage bins (I suppose we still could with Stow N Go but we'd have to take everything out if we wanted to use the stow feature).

I believe this is correct.

 

I have my 3rd Caravan. First was the original 1984, bought used in 1985, sold in 1994 with no issues except valves were tapping. Replaced it with a new 1994 that ran for 19 years until a head gasket blew and the engine overheated. Repair was too much so junked it and just replaced it with a used 2005. I love the stow-n-go seats which allow me to easily switch from hauling stuff to hauling people.

 

I always say too,

Chrysler invented the "Mini-Van"...they started it in the early 80's. And to this day, they are the ONLY Domestic "BIG 3" built van in Canada/US.

1. Ford dropped out after the failure of the Freestar in 2006.
2. GM dropped out after a nosedive in sales on there SV6 and Uplander vans.
3. The Kia Sedona has been cancelled as of the 2012 MY.
4. The Hyundai Entourage was discontinued in 2010.
5. Mazda stopped production of the MPV in 2006.
6. VW only produced the Routan for 4 years (re-badged Grand Caravan)

Most of these Manufacturers went to larger crossover style CUV's with 7-8 seats as there "mini-vans".

Ford is coming back to the mini-van market later this year with the 2014 Transit Connect. A European style mini-van. We will see how they do.


Whats left?

The Honda Oddyssey, built in Alabama, can be pretty pricey.

The Toyota Sienna, built in Indiana, again, can be pricey.

The Nissan Quest, built in Japan now (2011+), weird style from day one.

The Dodge Grand Caravan/Chrysler Town & Country, built in Windsor, Ontario, cheapest option, but not always the best "built" vehicle.


This is my two cents, or nickle now seeing as we have no more pennies here...

 

Higher efficiency motors are a good idea, so long as they are reliable.

 

If your wife is buying based upon payments then she's impulsive and going to get ripped off. You will wind up paying more for a gutted AVP than a SE. You should be able to get $4K off MSRP sticker price on ANY SE. The AVP sticker price is already cut down and they will not discount strippos as much. The $4K discounts put SE in the range of $17,800 to about $20k depending upon options.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4dr-Wgn-SE-New-Van-Automatic-3-6L-VVT-24-VALVE-V6-FLEX-Brilliant-Black-Crystal-P-/230974583174?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35c7287186
I see dozens of new SE's on autotrader like the one above selling for $18K within 100 mi of my house (this includes all rebates/incentives). Last time I checked, ALL buyers qualify for the current Dodge incentives. They are not obscure deals for college grads in military first car buyers or whatever. Setup the payment plan AFTER getting the best price. Interest rates are so low they aren't a bargaining tool.

Get price quotes thru internet searches. Use autotrader

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/?Log=0

and ebay to get best prices then ask local dealers to meet their price. If they won't, blow 3 hrs of your time driving to the dealer with the best advertized price. It might makes sense to pay $50 for a costco membership to get no haggle price with payment plan. I think AAA has something similar.

I thought you wanted stow and go? Why would you buy an AVP without that option and then try to retrofit the seats later? That will cost FAR more. You won't find used seats in the proper color and new 2nd row seats literally cost thousands of dollars thru parts department. The factory seat covers cost approximately $350 each to re-cover just ONE upper or lower cushion. This comes to $1400 to re-cover two salvage yard 2nd row bucket seats. You could easily spend $2500 getting 2nd row stow and go retrofitted and that's if you do all the labor. The storage bins in the floor would need changed and other things. Big nightmare. AVP will have poor resale value because it's strippo so the cost of ownership for SE will be the same or less. If you go to parts counter to upgrade an AVP to SE level you'll have $30K in the van even without paying a cent for labor. The AVP is strictly sold to attract lowball buyers thru pricing. It is not a good value.

 

I don't know how much different yours is from mine (a 2007 SE), but my trap door would also need to be replaced. The opening on the door used with the bench seats is shaped a bit like a "C" or each side like an "L", so it can clear the bench seat when it opens. On the other hand the door for the stow-n-go seat is larger and the edges are all straight. Its dimensions completely line up with those of the compartment, leaving enough a large enough opening for the collapsed and disconnected stow-n-go seats to just push forwards and drop right in.